cjr1851

No Callina, I'm happy to answer. I don't really consider myself a Jew in any proper sense. I am aware of my heritage but I refuse to be a slave to it. I have deliberately not passed a sense of Jewish identity to my own children (my wife's not Jewish BTW). I gave this a lot of thought as I do with all aspects of my kids' upbringing and I could not see what the value would be.

It has always seemed to me that promoting any form of racial identity can only serve to divide people. IMHO there is little difference between strong racial identity and the forms of nationalism that have so plagued European history for the past centuries. I would rather my children thought of themselves as members of the HUMAN race and no other.

Sorry, I think I'm going into rant mode!

Any further questions please ask. CJR

hinduwoman

But that is the way atheist hindus feel. We do not believe in the religion, but we do belong to the culture. It is simply that gods are a part of that culture, but that does not affect us.

Dionysus

My family came from Russia, and being a Jew there was more of a cultural than a religious classification. It sounds strange, but being a Jew among eastern Europeans has become an actual culture. Most of the elderly Jewish people I have met, and this number is well over 100, do not follow the tenets of Judaism, go to synagogoues, or even celebrate the holy days, yet they still consider themselves Jewish as opposed to "Russian" or "Polish", etc.

DMB

To anyone who's interested: I am an atheist who is happy to attack any religion. They are not, however, all equally stupid or obnoxious. In general I attack most those that are most powerful and most harmful in their effects.

Ford Prefect

I am a Agnostic Jew. I consider my self culturally Jewish but not theologically.

The thing about Judaism is that it did initially start out as a purely religious institution. Being a minority religion let to isolation from the rest of the world. In it’s isolation it developed into a distinct cultural heritage. Acutely it developed into several distinct cultural heritages. I’m Ahkanazin (probably spelled wrong, but I’ve never really been able to pronounce it much less spell it). Ahkanazin culture developed in East Europe and is what most American Jews are. The other well known faction is the Sephardic (probably also spelled wrong) Jew. Other Jewish groups are spread around the globe. So a person might be a member of one of the cultural identities without necessarily being a member of the religion.

Also interesting is the definition of Jew by the Society for Humanistic Judaism, <a href="http://www.shj.org/" target="_blank">http://www.shj.org/</a> .
A Jew is someone who identifies with the history, culture and future of the Jewish people.

I have noticed that a common question asked on this board is: What do Jews mean when they say they are the chosen people? My best guesses is that we are the chosen people because god gave us Matzo ball soup, the greatest food known to humanity . Truthfully I don’t know what the chosen people means. Judaism has no concept of Satan or Hell, I’ve heard the Quabbala even indicates that everybody is reincarnated. With no hell we can’t send heathens down to burn for eternity. From what I’ve heard the bible says we are god’s chosen people because we are circumcised, aren't we lucky.

Lastly I don’t care much for Israel. I personally think that Jewish culture is more tolerant then many other cultures and that is solely thanks to being a powerless minority. “Power Corrupts”

cjr1851

Yes Hinduwoman, I understand that. You've selected the bits of your culture that you like and discarded the bits that you don't. This is, of course, what we all do to some extent. My belief however, is that we only get one shot at this life, and that tying ourselves to the past (for what else is culture) is a bit of a waste of time.

hinduwoman

Well, it depends. you have chosen not to tie yourself to your Jewish past. But I am betting you are proud of your country's great leaders and
know something about its history. that is also culture.

As for discarding what I don't like, I think it is bit more complicated than that. Religion is so much everywhere in hinduism that you cannot draw the line definitely. The moral values are inculcated through myths; and just because the gods don't don't exist as persons don't mean their symbolism is not valid. I suppose that here is something I should debate with atheist Jews. In the Philosophy forum.

cjr1851

Yes I have a degree in History, but no I am not proud of my country's “great leaders” (few and far between) any more than I am ashamed of the multitude of not-so-great ones. This is one of my main objections to culture/heritage. It encourages people to take pride in achievements that are not theirs and feel guilt for crimes that were committed by someone else.

That’s interesting. I am afraid I spoke from a position of ignorance regarding Hindu culture, but I think I see what you’re saying.

As far as ‘Jewishness’ is concerned the members of my family (all atheists) are divided on the issue. Half of them (mostly the older ones) say they wish to maintain their sense of Jewish identity whereas the others (mostly younger) feel as I do. I’ve no idea what this means, but it seems to me like we are moving in the right direction.

[ February 28, 2002: Message edited by: cjr1851 ]</p>

Howard

Human beings have an inherent instinct for tribalism. It is a powerful survival mechanism and is manifested in a variety of modes including race, religion, ethnicity and nationality. Hell, even rooting for your favorite sports team is a form of it.

This characteristic tends to be more highly developed among groups that have been persecuted minorities - which Jews certainly have been. Furthermore, it is natural to associate yourself with people who are most like you both physically and culturally. We’re most comfortable with people who share our common heritage and who look like us.

So it isn’t surprising that some of us who were born and raised as Jews identify ourselves as such, even though we have long since renounced the theological aspects of Judaism. Granted, many people transcend this tribal instinct and see themselves as universalists, but I think that’s more the exception than the rule.

cjr1851

You’re right Howard. I may have transcended (or attempted to transcend) the tribal instinct regarding Judaism but I can still be almost xenophobic in my support for the England soccer team!

[edited to add..]

Come to think of it that's a bloody strange selection to have made. Support of a sports team over centuries of tradition

[ March 01, 2002: Message edited by: cjr1851 ]</p>