Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Anti-Materialist · 06-23-2003, 03:53 PM

I have zero faith in the Bible. I like some of what I read in it, and I dislike some of what I read. Some of the ethics proscribed in the Bible are just plain offensive. A kind and loving God, and Eternal Damnation are two mutually exclusive concepts, in my opinion.

I was just reading this webpage:

http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/6

And I really don't feel like going to all the trouble of examining the whole Bible code thing. I have always just assumed it was a case of backwards coding. You know, finding a code, which you can find in any data set you desire - then decoding that code - then finding facts to fit that decoding. Given the number of different ways you can alter data, I should think one could find proof that my underwear are green in the Bible.

However, since I have been ranting against making assumptions on this message board, I guess that means I shouldn't make any assumptions about Bible code stuff.

But I really don't wish to spend much time researching it - Do you guys know what are the arguments, pro and con, against Bible codes?

sakrilege · 06-23-2003, 04:18 PM

Moby Dick

echidna · 06-23-2003, 04:38 PM

And from a Christian site no less ...

Quote:

Using the Bible Code, Price writes, one finds the Hebrew phrase translated "Jehovah is a liar" eight times. "Jehovah is dead" occurs twenty-three times. "There is no Jehovah," Price writes, "occurs dozens of times in the Torah," as does "There is no God." Price also found the phrases "Satan is Jehovah" and "Satan is God."

How can a Christian continue to work with these supposedly God-given codes after reading this? Price has also used the Bible Code software to find six thousand Hebrew words (of the 9,597 in the Old Testament) merely in Isaiah 53. Other scholars report that if one uses the criteria used in the Bible Code, one can find just about any prophetic message one looks for in a few pages of just about any secular writing. By this light, the code doesn't seem nearly so inspired or prophetic.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...s_in_bible.htm

Corwin · 06-23-2003, 04:43 PM

There's also the 'War and Peace' code.

Patterns like this can be found in any book of sufficient length. Throw enough words out there and eventually you're going to find some patterns in them. It's just the way probability works out.

Anti-Materialist · 06-23-2003, 05:17 PM

Thank you - that Moby Dick site was great!

Someone who knows how to do all of this stuff should set out to find the following words in the Bible:

"There is no code in the Bible"

If they could find a message saying something like that, with using the same techniques that the Bible code proponents use - it would put them in a real quandary.

Corwin · 06-23-2003, 06:31 PM

Ok.... we should clarify here.

As far as 'codes' in the bible, there are a few. Early judaism was very mystical, and their brand of mysticism involved numerology. One use of numerology is a very basic form of mathematical encryption. (Pretty crude compared to what we use... but workable for passing encoded messages if you knew the rules.) There are cases of the bible making coded references, mostly political statements that would have gotten the authors killed if they'd said them openly. (The mark of the beast is an example. If you work out 666 according to hebrew numerology, it spells out the name Nero. It was a political statement by the early christians regarding the Roman occupation.... and Nero was especially disliked by both the jews and the early christians.)

These 'codes,' however, aren't due to the placement of words nor are they prophecy of any sort. What most 'bible code' types are referring to is the 'moby dick code.' Basic probability that some words will appear in patterns if you have a long enough book.

Wyz_sub10 · 06-24-2003, 06:38 AM

You may want to check out this entry in the Skepdic's Dictionary. It has been recently updated.

Bible Code

Mike Rosoft · 06-24-2003, 11:19 AM

Someone who knows how to do all of this stuff should set out to find the following words in the Bible:

"There is no code in the Bible"

Here you are:

Quote:

When I set out to engineer a "hidden code" link of "code" and "bogus" in KJV Genesis, I was able to produce sixty closely linked pairs. And every single one of these pairs could fit inside a reasonably sized puzzle.

Mike Rosoft

Hawkingfan · 06-24-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Anti-Materialist
Someone who knows how to do all of this stuff should set out to find the following words in the Bible:

"There is no code in the Bible"

If they could find a message saying something like that, with using the same techniques that the Bible code proponents use - it would put them in a real quandary.

Yep. This has already been done. And is continuing.
Check out the findings here

It does the code finding for the book by one of the quacks supporting it. There is a code in the book saying it is a fraud.

Also, you'll find links to this site with the following messages "coded" in the bible:

Hate Jesus
There is no God
Jehovah is a liar
Jehovah is dead
There is no God (5 times in the Torah!)
Satan is God

And get this-- there are codes that contradict each other!! As if the regular biblical writings didn't have enough!

Late_Cretaceous · 06-24-2003, 01:54 PM

A lot of bible code is probably concidental. I wonder not so much about the many coincidences in life, but the people who dig them up. Some people literally have too much time on their hands. Take the supposedConcidental Syncronicity between Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and the WIzard or Oz . CHrist, most people I know don't even have time to see if such a thing really works let alone actually figure things like this out. Some people really need to get out of the basement and lay off the weed.

06-23-2003, 03:53 PM	#1
Anti-Materialist Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia Posts: 87	Is Bible code horse poop? I have zero faith in the Bible. I like some of what I read in it, and I dislike some of what I read. Some of the ethics proscribed in the Bible are just plain offensive. A kind and loving God, and Eternal Damnation are two mutually exclusive concepts, in my opinion. I was just reading this webpage: http://www.biblecodedigest.com/page.php/6 And I really don't feel like going to all the trouble of examining the whole Bible code thing. I have always just assumed it was a case of backwards coding. You know, finding a code, which you can find in any data set you desire - then decoding that code - then finding facts to fit that decoding. Given the number of different ways you can alter data, I should think one could find proof that my underwear are green in the Bible. However, since I have been ranting against making assumptions on this message board, I guess that means I shouldn't make any assumptions about Bible code stuff. But I really don't wish to spend much time researching it - Do you guys know what are the arguments, pro and con, against Bible codes?

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-23-2003, 04:18 PM	#2
sakrilege Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Cleveland, OH, USA Folding@Home Godless Team Posts: 6,211	Moby Dick

06-23-2003, 04:43 PM	#4
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	There's also the 'War and Peace' code. Patterns like this can be found in any book of sufficient length. Throw enough words out there and eventually you're going to find some patterns in them. It's just the way probability works out.

06-23-2003, 05:17 PM	#5
Anti-Materialist Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Georgia Posts: 87	Thank you - that Moby Dick site was great! Someone who knows how to do all of this stuff should set out to find the following words in the Bible: "There is no code in the Bible" If they could find a message saying something like that, with using the same techniques that the Bible code proponents use - it would put them in a real quandary.

06-23-2003, 06:31 PM	#6
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Ok.... we should clarify here. As far as 'codes' in the bible, there are a few. Early judaism was very mystical, and their brand of mysticism involved numerology. One use of numerology is a very basic form of mathematical encryption. (Pretty crude compared to what we use... but workable for passing encoded messages if you knew the rules.) There are cases of the bible making coded references, mostly political statements that would have gotten the authors killed if they'd said them openly. (The mark of the beast is an example. If you work out 666 according to hebrew numerology, it spells out the name Nero. It was a political statement by the early christians regarding the Roman occupation.... and Nero was especially disliked by both the jews and the early christians.) These 'codes,' however, aren't due to the placement of words nor are they prophecy of any sort. What most 'bible code' types are referring to is the 'moby dick code.' Basic probability that some words will appear in patterns if you have a long enough book.

06-24-2003, 06:38 AM	#7
Wyz_sub10 Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: In the land of two boys and no sleep. Posts: 9,890	You may want to check out this entry in the Skepdic's Dictionary. It has been recently updated. Bible Code

06-24-2003, 01:54 PM	#10
Late_Cretaceous Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Alberta Posts: 1,049	A lot of bible code is probably concidental. I wonder not so much about the many coincidences in life, but the people who dig them up. Some people literally have too much time on their hands. Take the supposedConcidental Syncronicity between Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon and the WIzard or Oz . CHrist, most people I know don't even have time to see if such a thing really works let alone actually figure things like this out. Some people really need to get out of the basement and lay off the weed.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.