Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Shake · 07-06-2002, 06:27 AM

Hey y'all!
<a href="http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405014480,00.html?" target="_blank">Here's</a> a good article about the religious views of America's founding fathers taken from II's news section.

Interesting to note things like:

Quote:

He believed that Christ was a great moral teacher but did not believe in miracles or in Christ's divinity.

...referring to Thomas Jefferson. Some of us, I'm sure, are aware of the "Jefferson Bible" in which he cut out most of the religious hoopla (miracles, etc.) and left the moral lessons.

Also, that Washington

Quote:

rarely cited the Bible and never (bold added) spoke of Jesus Christ

Anyway, I bring this up because I'm getting sick of people arguing that the US is an Xian nation, in light of this whole Pledge issue.

Echo · 07-06-2002, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Shake:
<strong>Hey y'all!
<a href="http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,405014480,00.html?" target="_blank">Here's</a> a good article about the religious views of America's founding fathers taken from II's news section.

Interesting to note things like:

Anyway, I bring this up because I'm getting sick of people arguing that the US is an Xian nation, in light of this whole Pledge issue.</strong>

Yes, it can be pretty annoying.

I try to stay away from this subject with believers, mainly because I've discovered that for every quote that a nontheist puts forth to show that a particular founding father did not have a favorable attitude toward Christianity, a Christian can throw out a quote by the same individual that casts a positive light on Christianity.

Seems politics and politicians haven't changed all that much in 200+ years.

Shake · 07-06-2002, 07:00 AM

Yeah, like the part about how Washington apparently did attend church, but that scholars argue over his motivation for doing so. I can see it now:

Advisor: Mr. President, you might want to consider attending church on a more regular basis.

Pres.: But I don't even believe all that Jebus stuff that they preach.

Advisor: Well, Mr. President, the polls show that more of the people trust other church-goers, and are more willing to fund their reelection campaigns.

Pres.: Hmmm. Well, I suppose I could go show face a few times. But not every week, I've gotta get my golf in sometime, you know!

Cozmoe · 07-06-2002, 08:54 AM

No matter how religious all the founding fathers might have been, don't you find it odd that in the one most important document they produced, the Constitution, god is conspicuously absent?

Do you think this was just a lapse in concentration or maybe intentional?

Shake · 07-09-2002, 08:37 PM

Yeah, Coz, and <a href="http://www.trnonline.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=FAITH-FAITH-07-03-02&cat=LR" target="_blank">here's another article</a> about how the fathers purposely left god out of the Constitution!

GaryP · 07-10-2002, 02:14 AM

One of the more ridiculous statements I've heard the last couple of weeks was from Lou Dobbs of CNN.

He said that "to secure the blessings" showed that they were believers. They could n]have said"gifts"!

Grumpy · 07-10-2002, 03:36 PM

And don't forget "in the year of our Lord" in the date!!

Shake · 07-13-2002, 11:05 AM

Grumpy says:

Quote:

And don't forget "in the year of our Lord" in the date!!

Yes, but isn't this being replaced in some circle by BCE and CE ('before common era' and 'common era' respectively)? I'd start using it myself, but it's still based on the supposed birth of Christ. Maybe we should switch to the Chinese calendar. Or perhaps we should start with the ancient Egyptians some 5000 years ago. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

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07-06-2002, 07:00 AM	#3
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Yeah, like the part about how Washington apparently did attend church, but that scholars argue over his motivation for doing so. I can see it now: Advisor: Mr. President, you might want to consider attending church on a more regular basis. Pres.: But I don't even believe all that Jebus stuff that they preach. Advisor: Well, Mr. President, the polls show that more of the people trust other church-goers, and are more willing to fund their reelection campaigns. Pres.: Hmmm. Well, I suppose I could go show face a few times. But not every week, I've gotta get my golf in sometime, you know!

07-06-2002, 08:54 AM	#4
Cozmoe Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 43	No matter how religious all the founding fathers might have been, don't you find it odd that in the one most important document they produced, the Constitution, god is conspicuously absent? Do you think this was just a lapse in concentration or maybe intentional?

07-09-2002, 08:37 PM	#5
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Yeah, Coz, and <a href="http://www.trnonline.com/shns/story.cfm?pk=FAITH-FAITH-07-03-02&cat=LR" target="_blank">here's another article</a> about how the fathers purposely left god out of the Constitution!

07-10-2002, 02:14 AM	#6
GaryP Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Lancaster, OH Posts: 1,792	One of the more ridiculous statements I've heard the last couple of weeks was from Lou Dobbs of CNN. He said that "to secure the blessings" showed that they were believers. They could n]have said"gifts"!

07-10-2002, 03:36 PM	#7
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	And don't forget "in the year of our Lord" in the date!!

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