xeren

This is similar to a recent thread from a month ago, but it really didn't get answered(with a record 227 non-answers for Vander), so i'm going to try it again:

I firmly believe that we, as people, cannot choose our beliefs. We can only take a fact claim, and evaluate it under our criteria for believing something to be true or not true.

So would a just god punish us for not being able to believe that he exists because we do not find enough evidence? Or even better, because we see contradictions in the notion of certain gods?

-xeren

I'm not going to name names, but it would be nice if certain people who, when argued into a corner, act insulted, then leave, then come back later, and still don't answer any of the tough questions posed, would STOP IT.

Rusting Car Bumper

I agree and I have made this point before. I just started a thread in Philosophy related to this very subject but I was targeting belief in general and not just God beief.

If one could choose belief then I could then, in principle, convince myself I had 14 fingers on one hand.

Or I could choose to believe that plunging this pencil into my eye would not harm me at all but instead would afford me the greatest advantages and pleasure.

I think its quite clear that many if not most of our beliefs are not chosen.

DC

Keith Russell

Greetings:

In a 'Time Magaine' article from last year, "Science Finds God", several scientists explained that they--for whatever reasons--had'willed themselves to believe' in God.

I have the issue at my studio. I'll try to remember to grab it, and post the actual names, dates.

You 'unchosen-belief' folks keep saying things like 'our beliefs are mostly not chosen', but I have yet to hear anyone explain specifically which beliefs you mean.

Why not explain which of your beliefs weren't chosen, and the process by which you ascertained that these beliefs were not chosen?

Why has no one explained how it is they have these beliefs, if they didn't choose them?

Keith.

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Keith Russell ]</p>

Rusting Car Bumper

Funny. I seem to have mentioned a few. In fact your responded in another thread.

FYI, a little common civil respect is in order. Refrain from "you such and such folks" if you don't mind.

DC

RJS

By definition, a just God will do what is just. Beyond that, it probably isn't worth discussing.

xeren

SO what are you saying, I wouldn't be punished because it would be unjust?

Or because atheists go to hell, that sending me to hell becomes just?


[edited to avoid people splitting hairs with my statement]

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: xeren ]</p>

xeren

Let me answer that with several questions (i promise i'm not evading- if these don't answer it for you, i'll post another answer in the form of an answer).

Do you believe in Santa Claus? Why not? You don't find the evidence for exiistence very compelling? Okay, now that we've gotten this far.
Start believing in him. You can't make yourself? Oh, you say, you can't choose to believe in him?

I hope that helps, if it doesn't, please reply, and include a way that you can choose to believe in Santa Claus, and honestly start believing in Him.

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: xeren ]</p>

Mageth

By definition, a just God will do what is just. Beyond that, it probably isn't worth discussing.

Why not try to answer the question (which your circular definition didn't):

So would a just god punish us for not being able to believe that he exists because we do not find enough evidence?

In other words, why would god, supposedly being "just", find it necessary to punish someone just because they, using their reason, finds insufficient reason to believe in him?

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

RJS

I think using someone (something) other than Santa Clause would be more helpful. We all KNOW that Santa doesn't exist - we are part of the charade. Just a thought.

BTW, xeren, you never opened up to get personal messages - hence, the reason I have not responded regarding the stock market.

Mageth

Instead of Santa, how about Allah, or Vishnu, or any other gods of other religions?