auto-da-fe

Article here

Can you imagine being there the day he "came out" to his congregation? I would have loved to have a camcorder prepared, and film some of the peoples reactions.

If even a man "of God" doesn't beleive that there is an actual, physical God, or an afterlife, or the virgian Mary, and thinks Jesus was just a charismatic guy who got lucky, how could those people deal with that? It seems that the majority of the people according to the story are focusing on the fact that this dude was suspended, and trying to get him back, rather than deal with the questions that his proclamation had to bring up.

The story does bring up a good point though: Does a priest or pastor HAVE to believe in a physical God and an afterlife in order to be an effective spiritual guide to his followers?

I personally think that it shouldn't really matter, but then I can't put myself in a situation where I can imagine what it would be like to be in a congregation and find out that my pastor doesn't actually believe in it. My reaction would be to laugh my ass off, but that is because I don't believe it either. If I were one of the shee... er, I mean followers, I'm not sure what I would think.

Rhaedas

In his case, it sounds to me like he's still a deist, just not a believer in the christian god of the bible literally. In that sense, I don't see any problem at all, and given the religious atmosphere of the Danish people according to the article, I don't see why the big fuss. He didn't become atheist and denounce all religion.

Now, if he had done so, proclaiming he didn't believe in any deity at all, then as a spiritual advisor I'd see him having a problem...maybe not so much not knowing how to do his job, because certainly with the experience he must have, he could continue to go through the motions, believing or not. But it would probably be a conflict to him personally, having to teach and counsel based on what he feels is incorrect.

I do wonder if there's some ethical line he crossed though, using his position to make this announcement, rather than quietly stepping down...not that I think planting seeds of question and doubt is a bad thing.

AndresDeLaHoz

This is like that bad Ally McBeal episode.

Per

Not in my opinion. Priests in the state church can say pretty much what they want; there isn't an authority like the pope that sets up guidelines for the church's dogma. While there are 'liberal' priests like mr. Grosbøll there are also some pretty hardcore fundy priests, who certainly aren't bothered by their employment status when making extreme statements of various sorts.

Ray Marlin

It brings up some good points, but I would even disagree Jesus was a nice guy trying to upgrade us.
"You must hate your mother and father for my sake?"
"Anyone who does not believe in me will be thrown into the lake of fire?"
"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away"

How is this even a nice guy?

Per

Seeing as how Grosbøll isn't big on taking the bible literally, I don't think he'd have any problems explaining such things away. He's probably made up his own unique Jesus persona rather independent of scripture...

B. H. Manners

I don't know about the Lutheran Church, but the typical Church of Christ denomination would more than likely demand the resignation of a minister that said he did not believe in god or doubted. He would more than likely be excommunicated too. There are some professors at CoC sponsored colleges that have doubted the errancy of scripture but they have to constantly fight for their jobs.

--edited to say errancy should say inerrancy---

diana

Fascinating.

I'd have to say Yes, the operative word being "effective."

Christianity is (presumably) about honesty and integrity and faith, among other things. If he's honest--as he was--and admits he doesn't have faith, how can you expect those less learned in spiritual matters (as many, if not most, congregants view themselves) to continue believing? I'd think that would be a serious blow to their faith.

For this reason, I find the postman's comment intriguing.

Or he could have just stayed quiet about it, I suppose. This would automatically call his integrity into question, even if no one else knew he'd lost his faith. But at some point, he'd be asked how he feels or what he believes, etc, at which point he must either admit he doesn't believe--which would make him a very bad spiritual leader for the congregation--or lie, with the same result.

Get the fuck out. CoC profs have doubted the inerrancy (I assume you meant) of scripture? The end times are upon us. Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye.

d

B. H. Manners

"Get the fuck out. CoC profs have doubted the inerrancy (I assume you meant) of scripture? The end times are upon us. Bend over and kiss your ass goodbye."

Where should I take my fuck?

Yes, its true. Church of Christ universities have professors who doubt the inerrancy of the Bible.

Jobar

This topic brings up a question I've always wondered about- just how many 'men of the cloth' truly believe in the things they preach? What percentage of them are sanctimonious conmen, who knowingly lie through their teeth to keep a cushy position? I think that percentage must be high, perhaps very high. They spend their lives preaching this rot, and seeing exactly how little it affects the course of everyday life; I'm sure some of them are so strongly brainwashed that they do indeed believe, and thus do their jobs with a clean conscience. (But at what cost in cognitive dissonance?) Look at the number of former preachers we have in this one group- men and women who, to their great credit, walked away from jobs which they could have kept for the price of a few lies. Given the tendency of human beings to dishonesty, how many more weighed truth against profit and found truth wanting?

I don't see how we can ever really know; still it's one of those things that makes for interesting bull sessions over beer...