lpetrich

I wonder how creationists explain rabies. But I first digress to note that some disease symptoms are ways that the disease organisms get their hosts to spread them.

Thus, cold viruses induce their hosts to cough, thus spreading those viruses.

And some bacteria and viruses induce diarrhea, which also spreads them.

But rabies is an especially cruel example of induced behavior. The rabies virus is mainly transmitted by bites; after getting into a host, it gets into the host's nervous system and salivary glands. After hibernating for days to weeks to months, the virus awakens, and tries to make itself spread.

Which it does by making its hosts nasty and vicious and more than willing to bite. And with each bite comes some saliva, which has, not surprisingly, some of the rabies virus. The host almost always dies after this period, which usually lasts less than a week.

As can be seen, the rabies virus is well-adapted to its lifestyle, and according to a favorite creationist argument, it must have been designed that way. But could a benevolent Providence really want to design an organism that has such a sadistic way of spreading itself?

And there is the problem of surviving the trip on Noah's Ark, which was supposedly a year long -- and doing so without causing the extinction of the species of some of its hosts from one of a pair dying before they could reproduce.

(grammar touch-up)

[ May 26, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

RufusAtticus

And rabies does all that with something like four genes.

~~RvFvS~~

lpetrich

Here's <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov:80/cgi-bin/Entrez/framik?db=genome&gi=10362" target="_blank">a rabies-virus genome on file</a>. Only 11932 base pairs, divided among 5 protein genes.

Also, I found these nice articles on <a href="http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/witch/vampire/rabies.html" target="_blank">vampires as rabies victims</a> and <a href="http://shanmonster.lilsproutz.com/witch/werewolf/rabies.html" target="_blank">werewolves as rabid wolves</a>. And a paper in a professional journal, "Rabies: a possible explanation for the vampire legend", Neurology 1998 Sep;51(3):856-9 by Juan Gomez-Alonzo, detailing this theory. Here's something on human rabies symptoms:

"The incubation period of the rabies virus in humans averages from two to eight weeks, but may vary from ten days to ten months, or more, depending on the location of the bite, the severity of the wound, and its proximity to the central nervous system. The symptoms of the disease in humans are relevant to our discussion. These, according to modern clinical observations, include: hyperactivity, disorientation, hallucinations, seizures, bizarre behavior, stiffness or paralysis of the neck. In most cases a period of marked hyperactivity (furious rabies) develops lasting hours to days. The hyperactivity consists of periods of agitation, thrashing, running, biting, or other bizarre behavior. These episodes may occur spontaneously or may be precipitated by tactile, auditory, visual, or olfactory stimuli.

Many victims of rabies are reported to rage in delirium, howl like wolves in their agony, go into violent frenzies, and attack and bite those around them, producing horror among both medical personnal and casual onlookers."

Much like the behavor of a mad dog

And the rabies virus must have some simple way of causing that big change in behavior.

I did some more research on the subject of parasite-induced host behavior, and I've found some more examples:

<a href="http://www.ultranet.com/~jkimball/BiologyPages/G/Games.html" target="_blank">"Games Parasites Play"</a>:

* a fluke (Phylum Platyhelminthes) that causes its periwinkle (mollusk) host to move up close to the surface in the intertidal zone where it is more likely to be eaten by the sea gull that serves as the alternate host;

* another fluke that causes its fish host to jump about making it more noticeable to the birds that prey on it;

* still another fluke (Dicrocoelium dendriticum) that causes its ant intermediate host to attach itself high on a blade of grass where it is more likely to be eaten by its final host (cow, sheep, etc.).

* Toxoplasma gondii, a cat intestinal parasite. The normal intermediate host for T. gondii is the rat. Infected rats lose their natural fear of cats increasing the chance that the parasite will move on to another cat. ...

All of which are examples of causing their hosts to be eaten by possible future hosts.

Another interesting example of host modification is castration, which some snail and fish parasites do -- but it's not certain how that is convenient for the parasite.

[ May 27, 2002: Message edited by: lpetrich ]</p>

Oolon Colluphid

It’s also worth noting that lyssavirus infection is 100% fatal after the onset of symptoms. With the possible exception of HIV (which has too long an incubation period and disease course to be sure about), no other infection has so certain an outcome. It is normal for some people to survive even the nastiest pathogenic infection. Even Ebola Zaire is only about 90% fatal. But nobody makes it through rabies once the symptoms manifest. Nice, huh?

Cheers, Oolon

Vorkosigan

When we were in Peace Corps the nurse told us that there was one survivor of rabies known to medical science, a baby. We lost one volunteer to it the year before I came, and I got infected with it -- I had went to visit a friend and played with her supposedly safe pup and a couple of weeks later I was back in Nairobi and ran into the friend on the street, who informed me in passing that the pup had died. It turned out the mother never got shots, and so I was infected. Fortunately we caught it in time. I shudder to think what would have happened if I hadn't run into her on the street like that.

Vorkosigan

Do not wish to be associated w/ II

From memory I recall reading somewhere of there being only ONE case of a fully-blown rabid patient surviving too.

scigirl

I've always wanted to write up my own version of the "argument for incredulity. . .look how complex we are, there MUST be a God" but use viruses and other nasty parasites as examples.

I.E. "Rotavirus is a perfect pathogen, with only 11 genes it can just perfectly infect the small intestine of a small child. It has the exact protein sequences it needs to activate the enteric nervous and secretion systems, causing nasty diarrhea and spreading the viral projeny to the next child. . . how else could this perfect and wonderful virus have come about, if not for our wonderful loving God??"

(This virus kills about a half a million kids a year btw, especially in underdeveloped countries).

Maybe I'll steal some of these ideas and work on that paper. . .

scigirl

Coragyps

Further anecdotal support: Pre-teen boy, in Denver, Colorado, maybe around 1990? They used hyperbaric oxygen and fought each symptom as it arose, and the kid lived. It had a lot of press coverage at the time, as it truly was a Big Deal. Especially for the kid, I guess.