hinduwoman

The fact that sinners go to hell is one of the things that make heaven enjoyable for the good christians.

St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica
"The blessed in the kingdom of heaven will see the punishment of the damned, in order that their bliss be more delightful for them."

Tertullian: De Spectaculis
"How vast a spectacle then bursts upon the eye? What there excites my admiration? What my derision? Which sight gives me joy? Which rouses me to exultation?--as I see so many illustrious monorachs, whose reception into the heavens was publically anouced, groaning now in the lowest darkness with great Jove himself, and those, too, who bore witness of their exultation; governers of provinces, too, who persecuted the Christian name, in fires more fierce than those with which in the days of their pride they raged against the followers of Christ. What world's wise men besides, the very philosophers, in fact, who taught their followers that God has no concern in aught that is sublunary, and were wont to assure them that either they had no souls, or that they would never return to the bodies which at death they had left, now covered with shame before the poor deluded ones, as one fire consumes them! Poets also, trembling not before the judgment seat of Rhadamanthus or Minos, but of the unexpected Christ! I shall have a better opportunity then of hearing the tragedians, louder-voiced in their own calamity; of viewing the play-actors, much more 'dissolute' in the disolving flame; of looking upon the charioteer. all glowing in his chariot of fire; of beholding the wrestlers, not in their gymnasia, but tossing in the fiery billows; unless even then I shall not care to attend to such ministers of sin, in my eager wish rather to fix a gaze insatiable on those whose fury vented itself against the Lord....What quaester or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favour of seeing and exulting in such thing as these?And yet even now we in a measure have them by faithin the picturings of imagination.

Even in hell we atheists will be serving a purpose. But we will have the very best company.

seebs

Let's just say that there's a lot of stuff about which I do not agree with Aquinas.

Amos

Please hinduwoman, if you don't want their company now, why do you think they would make good company later? Why, if you accept the fact that the self proclaimed Christians will be in hell, would you even think that you are going to hell? I mean how wrong must they be before you don't believe them?

Obviously, Tertullian does not think they will go to heaven:

whose reception into the heavens was publically anouced, groaning now in the lowest darkness with great Jove himself

ybnormal

Seebs, seebs, seebs. My oh, my! I was heading to that other thread, but...


tdekeyser
But this proves the Xian faith is more bigoted than even the KKK.


seebs:
Speaking of bigotry, wouldn't lumping a whole group of people together and treating them as though they have no individual differences be a kind of bigotry?


seebs:
Sure, but, within my belief system, *all* people, not just some people, are sinners. So, yes, you too. Just like everybody else.

beyelzu

i do dislike all religion. and i dislike most of the christians that i meet. but i dont hate all of them. and i decided a long time ago that if i have to go to hell, then so be it.

seebs

Yup. And "sinners" do not necessarily go to hell. Thus the use of the word "salvation".

ybnormal

"Yup", what?

Yup, the whole of Christianity is, according to TD & seebs, as bigoted as the KKK?

Yup, seebs himself is, according to TD & seebs, as bigoted as the KKK?

Yup, every time you call TD & yb a "sinner", you admit to your awful xian bigotry?

Yup, yb was right when he told TD that Christian bigotry was easy to prove?

Yup, TD and yb are right in saying your "sinner" label is highly offensive?

Yup, seebs does indeed make Atheists who try to opt out, an integral part of your christianity?

Come on, seebs... I ain't trying to grind you down. I'm trying to pin you down.

Yup, what?

sakrilege

Thanks!

seebs

Yes, I think all people are sinners. Since I don't think all sinners go to hell, this is basically irrelevant.

Your assertions all depend on an ironclad equivalence between "sinners" and "go to hell". Since I don't believe in one, I don't accept your conclusions.

LuckyCharm

I'm going to have to start going to the "Who's Online" feature more often -- seems like the best way to find the interesting threads! :-)

My two cents, FWIW...

Awww, that old "gotcha"? Well, since Christianity is all about relationship, this is kinda like asking, "How can a decent person be happily married, knowing there are so many miserable single folks out there?"

Do people in love "look down" on those who aren't? I dunno... what do you think?

I'm so glad you feel that way, hinduwoman. Me, I get irritated by crabby customers... I don't think I could bear an eternity surrounded by people so filled with hatred, fear, rage, and bitterness that there remains no hope of breaking out. And worse, knowing that I was just as despicable as they are....

Do you read the news at all? Are you capable of being horrified at man's inhumanity to man? Think of the worst of the worst -- Jeffrey Dahmer; that lady who recently had abused her three children, one to the point of death, and the other two damned near; perverts who lure young children away from home to be used in kiddie porn "snuff" films. The best of company? You go for it -- I'll pass, thank you very much...

~~Cheryl