Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corona688 · 07-31-2003, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Autonemesis
vi

...who ever hurt you so badly that you force yourself to use vi?

...kidding, of course. And nothing wrong with using vi, if that's what you like... But really... vi is a *HORRIBLE* editor. It's bad bad bad. I've taught myself to use it several times; it never sticks. Just too alien.

I *know* how powerful everyone says it is, but I don't care. I'm no UNIX newbie, I've compiled kernels, made scripts in bash and awk and perl, understand how regex works, but vi I cannot and WILL NOT grok. And why does it fill the background of empty lines with ':'s? What if I wanted to type in a line of ':'s, how would I know when I had?

My typical vi session:

Quote:

*loads vi, typetypes*
computer: !@#^%#$^#%&! BEEP BEEP BEEP
*...puts vi into insert mode, typetypes, forgets how to take OUT of insert mode and quits by closing the window*
*try again, manage to type something up, then try to save and quit with ESC :sq*
computer: WTF!?
*....give up and use somethingelse*

Allow me to quote Friends. "It's not that it's bad... it's that it's SO bad... it makes me want to stick my finger through my eye, into my brain, and swirl it around." It's not user-unfriendly. It is beyond unfriendly. This text editor, my friends, has declared OPEN WARFARE on the user. I could write a bad-candy.com review of vi and they would put it up. Every time you use vi, god kills a kitten.

My editor of choice? pico. Small, simple, and does what I need without obfusication or garbage.

....whew. I feel much better now. Thank you for reading(or tolerating, at least) my rant.

SiliconWolf · 07-31-2003, 01:36 AM

Dreamweaver + PHP by hand

I am a professional web designer. It would take me ages to get everything done if I hand coded all the HTML. I still hand code some of the HTML that PHP will generate, and all of the PHP code itself. Those are the intellectually stimulating parts anyway. I prefer to let the editor handle the mundane parts like creating tables, sizing fonts, etc. Besides, the sites I work on have rather complex design layouts, and I would tear out my hair trying to position all that stuff by hand. Of course, it is inevitable that I have to go back into the code and futz around with the one or two tags that DW just won't place properly.

Dreamweaver also has a built in FTP client that is a must for me.

Hayden · 07-31-2003, 03:40 AM

I hand code using HTML-Kit by http://www.chami.com.

I do mainly ASP, with a fair amount of HTML and less JScript. I've built myself a pretty extensive libray of common functions, to the point where most scripts are just a couple of SSIs, some basic logic and a bit of presentation. As I get better I'm moving most of the business logic into SQL Server, as it handles it better.

HR

lowmagnet · 07-31-2003, 04:11 AM

About VI vs. Pico: I've been using vi for about ten years now, and I stopped using Pico entirely. Unfortunately for Pico, it has some bad habits like inserting carriage returns in code by default, and I can't be bothered to write a .rc file to fix this behaviour.

Corona688 · 07-31-2003, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lowmagnet
About VI vs. Pico: I've been using vi for about ten years now, and I stopped using Pico entirely. Unfortunately for Pico, it has some bad habits like inserting carriage returns in code by default, and I can't be bothered to write a .rc file to fix this behaviour.

This is true.. and I have no doubt that 10 years of vi use makes it seem natural... but really, if it takes more than 3 minutes to explain how to use a TEXT EDITOR there's something seriously gone wrong.

emotional · 07-31-2003, 09:10 AM

The time invested in learning how to use vi is richly rewarded.

Bialar Crais · 07-31-2003, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DarkBronzePlant
Funny you bring that up. I'm too "young" of a programmer to have had a reason to get into machine/assembly languages. But at some point, I would like to try learning it, "for fun." As I watch myself typing these words, I realize that I am sick and need help.

Hey! There's NOTHING wrong with assembler programming. Nothing!

(Is not that much of an oldie either, but had the opportunity to use 6504 (c64), z80 (MSX), 680x0 ('miggy), MIPS and a quick glance at PPC (I never got as far as getting a PPC-card for the 'miggy but....)

And using IDEs to auto-generate code is ... disgusting.. heretical...

As for the HTML part, the few times I have ebgaged in site building... Handcoding. Vi (although, to be really, REALLY geeky, I guess I should use ed :P). Running the code through W3Cs validators.

Mister Impossible · 07-31-2003, 02:11 PM

EditPad Lite.

I don't bother writing that much HTML nowadays since I find it very dull. Instead I'll create a set of templates an use PERL to do all the work for me. PERL's great.

Corona688 · 07-31-2003, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by emotional
The time invested in learning how to use vi is richly rewarded.

In my case, with headaches and eyestrain.

beoba · 08-01-2003, 12:40 AM

By hand, with EditPlus.

I tend to start off by making a template, and then using ssi includes or something similar in all the other pages that refer to that template. Then, if I ever want to change something to the layout of the site, I just go to the template files, rather than finding and editing every .*htm* file on the site.

View Poll Results: Do you code the HTML manually or do you use a WYSIWYG editor?
I always code the HTML manually	47	65.28%
I always use a WYSIWYG editor	1	1.39%
I use a WYSIWYG editor and then manually correct its HTML output	15	20.83%
I code the HTML manually for some sites, and use a WYSIWYG editor for others	9	12.50%
Voters: 72. You may not vote on this poll

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07-31-2003, 01:36 AM	#32
SiliconWolf Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: A soulless suburb of Chicago Posts: 1,000	Dreamweaver + PHP by hand I am a professional web designer. It would take me ages to get everything done if I hand coded all the HTML. I still hand code some of the HTML that PHP will generate, and all of the PHP code itself. Those are the intellectually stimulating parts anyway. I prefer to let the editor handle the mundane parts like creating tables, sizing fonts, etc. Besides, the sites I work on have rather complex design layouts, and I would tear out my hair trying to position all that stuff by hand. Of course, it is inevitable that I have to go back into the code and futz around with the one or two tags that DW just won't place properly. Dreamweaver also has a built in FTP client that is a must for me.

07-31-2003, 03:40 AM	#33
Hayden Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 712	I hand code using HTML-Kit by http://www.chami.com. I do mainly ASP, with a fair amount of HTML and less JScript. I've built myself a pretty extensive libray of common functions, to the point where most scripts are just a couple of SSIs, some basic logic and a bit of presentation. As I get better I'm moving most of the business logic into SQL Server, as it handles it better. HR

07-31-2003, 04:11 AM	#34
lowmagnet Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Raleigh, NC Posts: 959	About VI vs. Pico: I've been using vi for about ten years now, and I stopped using Pico entirely. Unfortunately for Pico, it has some bad habits like inserting carriage returns in code by default, and I can't be bothered to write a .rc file to fix this behaviour.

07-31-2003, 09:10 AM	#36
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	The time invested in learning how to use vi is richly rewarded.

07-31-2003, 02:11 PM	#38
Mister Impossible Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: UK Posts: 298	EditPad Lite. I don't bother writing that much HTML nowadays since I find it very dull. Instead I'll create a set of templates an use PERL to do all the work for me. PERL's great.

08-01-2003, 12:40 AM	#40
beoba Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Boston Posts: 699	By hand, with EditPlus. I tend to start off by making a template, and then using ssi includes or something similar in all the other pages that refer to that template. Then, if I ever want to change something to the layout of the site, I just go to the template files, rather than finding and editing every .htm file on the site.

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