Baidarka

In 1858 a 6 year old Jewish boy was taken from his parents, by the police, by the order of the Inquisitor, Father Feletti and handed over to the Catholic Church on the pretext that a Catholic servant of his parents had secretly baptized him. The Church’s position was that once the child had been baptized he could no longer live with his Jewish parents and had to be raised in the Catholic religion.
As part of the brain washing indoctrination the child was told that the leader of this weird extremist cult who called himself Pope Pius IX was his new spiritual father. He was also instructed that the cult leader was infallible. He was told that his parents were trying to destroy his soul and that they would kill him to prevent him from living as a Christian. It seems that the brainwashing was a success since the poor confused kid became a priest.

The Kidnapping of Egardo Mortara by David Kertzer

livius drusus

And 150 years later, John Paul II beatified that cult leader/kidnapper. Soon he will be a saint of Holy Mother Church.

Baidarka

Livius drusus
I was not aware that Pope Pius IX was being considered for Sainthood!!! This is an appalling idea. It either requires some incredible historical revisionism or an incredibly myopic view of reality.
When all the glorious trappings of holiness and infallibility are stripped away we are left with a rather common and quite nasty kidnapping, the brainwashing of a child and the molesting of a child’s mind if not his body.
What is the difference between the Smart kidnapping by a religious nut who calls himself by the pseudonym Emanuel and the Mortara kidnapping by a religious nut who called himself Pope Pius IX?
I know that this may seem to be an old dead issue, but the fact that this Pope may soon be a saint should stimulate some discussion.
Imagine if George Bush decided to honor the memory of General George Armstrong Custer with some sort of ceremony.
The act of apologetics involved in this relatively modern travesty illustrates a very dangerous point about the religious mind and its selective inability to comprehend objective reality.
Is there really a substantial difference between Emanuel and Pope Pius IX?

Amos

How about, the Mormons must waith for the gates of heaven to open while the Catholics can just pile them on top of each other.

Really, was the Mortara kidnapping a sacrificial lamb or did he just have a poor mother? Sorry I don't know much about the circumstances so my response may be somewhat off the mark but it seems to me that this would not happen in most families.

My grandfather was an orphan in about 1860 and became a ward of the Church. He went to the seminary to be educated for the priesthood and after all of these investments made by the church he was given to choice to be ordained or not. He got married and four children. He was about the only person that was educated in his town and actually became an employer/businessman.

Baidarka

Amos

Edgardo Mortara was kidnapped from a large middle class Italian Jewish family. His parents spent years begging the Church to return their son. Their plight became an international scandal. The Church stood up to criticism from the world press, the diplomatic entreaties of Sir Moses Montefiore, military and political pressure from Napoleon III. Many writers and legal minds appealed to the Church and Pope on the grounds of Natural Law but the Pope stood by the Church's right and duty to protect the child's baptized soul from the danger of apostasy.
It is ironic in light of the NT accusation that the greatest error of the Pharisees was their extreme legalism that the Church would stand up to the civilized World over such an extreme legalistic issue.

Amos

I would have to agree with your conclusion and believe what you write is true. I just gave you my "first thought" reaction and hope you are not offended by it. I actually read the link by livius drusus and wonder what their motive was. Surely, not just the baptism which may still have been a lie.

What I wrote about my grandfather is true.

Mike Rosoft

The Association for the Rights of Catholics in the Church has written a good pronouncement on beatification of pope Pius IX.


Mike Rosoft

Baidarka

Mike Rosoft

Thank you for the very interesting link. I found the following very much on point and I am gratified to find that there are people of conscience within the Church who really get it.


Help us to convert all non-Catholics in the world, who are otherwise condemned to hell, as you proclaimed in Quanto Conficiamur. Pius IX pray for us.
Inspired by your example, help us to continue the persecution of the Jewish people, those "money lusting enemies of the Church," as you described them in your 1873 address. Pius IX pray for us.
Help us to remember Edgardo Moratara so that we might secretly baptize other Jewish children, and, if necessary, kidnap them from their protesting parents, following your example. Pius IX pray for us.

PS- Later this year a Movie will be released about the Edgardo Moratara affair.

Shake

OMIPU! I can't believe some of what's in that pronouncement. Here, take a gander: "Yes, God, please help us in our mission of hate which we follow through your loving example." Hitler's laughing in his grave! Gott mit uns, indeed.Yikes! My fellow Americans, please take note of this next quote:Damnit! I knew Catholicism was anti-American!Oh good, no freedom of (or from) religion. Amos, Amie, other Catholics, this probably means you'll have to leave. [/sarcasm]
:banghead:
ARGH! Oh, and there's another one in there condoning slavery! Do I have to even comment on THAT one?

... and people wonder what I have against the Catholic Church!

PS. I realize any Catholics here probably don't agree with all of the above quotes, and neither do a lot of modern Catholics. But I'm sure there ARE some! And that's what pisses me off!

Mike Rosoft

Sakpo, in case you didn't notice, the litany was meant sarcastically, and not seriously. Like the final paragpaph says:


Mike Rosoft