Alonzo Fyfe

Evidence suggests headway on the pledge issue. Where, initially, 9 out of 10 sided against the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals, the numbers are now coming in closer to 3 to 1 against the Court.

This may still sound bad, but if we can add 1 more person to the "pro" side for each person who has already changed their mind, then the odds will be near to even.

One of the biggest arguments used against us is that we do not want to allow people to say "God" in school.

To disarm this argument, I propose advocating the following:

Change the pledge of allegiance to read:

"I pledge allegiance, to the flag, of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all, so help me God." With the last part being optional as it is in all other federal oaths.

Mention of God should not be removed from the pledge, it should just be moved, and made optional.

After all, I for one, do not mind if a person says that they believe in God. Just as they should not mind if I say that I do not believe in God. What I mind is the government saying that only those who believe in God may pledge allegiance, and that the pledge itself says that no atheist is welcome in this country.

With this, all complaints about Christians being oppressed or denied their right to say "God" are deflected. And our point is made.

Jamie_L

I don't think that really helps our cause much.

My point is, people still have free speech. Any parent who wants their child to say an "under God" pledge can tell them to get together with other like-minded students before school and all say a pledge together. In fact, maybe we should push this ourselves. Start campaigns to get people to say the pledge OUTSIDE of the classroom setting. Everyone can say a version they like. Teachers don't have to get involved. Everyone is happy.

Anyone who objectst to this clearly exposes their desire to have the school force OTHER PEOPLE'S CHILDREN to say the word GOD. That is a sentiment easy to attack, as it is certainly not "de minimus".

Jamie

4th Generation Atheist

But what the Xns don't understand is that kids can say "God" in school all they like, and pray &c all they like also, on their own. It just can't be rude and offensive (as in a cuss), disruptive of other students' learning experience or imposed by an authority figure.

Now, I don't really mean to say don't understand. I mean to say don't admit they understand. Because the real objective is to get the prayer required by authority, in a sneaky way if the majority doesn't want it (though if they can get the majority to persecute atheists all the "better"), disruptive to non-Xn students' learning experience and rude and offensive in the highest order. Because what they want is their "right" to bully us.

You'd probably have an easy time pushing a "compromise" that included SHMG at the end precisely because it allows for the possibility of unacknowledged browbeating by students and teachers whose personal opinion is that everyone should be forced to say it or stand up and take their philosophical clothes off for an official in-class beating.

I say this as someone who has already taken two gov't oaths and opted in both cases to scratch off the final SHMG, which the fine print states that one is allowed to do. Only, this leaves a record with the gov't that one had an objection! An adult form of the in-class bullying operates here. SHMG always leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth, and I wouldn't want to make atheist children deal with it; it's no different from the bad taste left by "under God." I know; I've tasted both. The smell is familiar to anyone; I've never tasted the thing they smell like so I can't make the obvious comparison.