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04-13-2003, 09:23 PM | #1 |
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How did the Nicene Council influence the Bible?
Modern Christianity (Christianity of Roman roots) seems to incorporate many aspects of religions and cults that were contemporary to Constantine (Apollo, Dionysis and in particular Mithra - who shares the same virgin birthday, day of death, day of resurection, moral position and savior role as Christ).
In addition to standardising the Bible (setting an official interpritation of the life of Jesus as opposed to the many versions floating around at the time) did the council of Nicea seek to draw paralells between Christiainity and traditional Roman religions in order to make the conversion of the Empire easier? |
04-14-2003, 01:51 AM | #2 |
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Re: How did the Nicene Council influence the Bible?
The council of Nicaea did not standardise the Bible. (That was the councils of Laodicea 363, Rome 382, Hippo 393, Carthage 397 etc)
To answer your question: Not that I am aware of. But you're welcome to go and read the decisions of the council yourself. (use the "> page" button at bottom to scroll through the various canons) |
04-17-2003, 02:54 AM | #3 |
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There was also a council set up for the King James version is that the Council of Nicea? I remember reading they had battles over interpretations and some of the members may have been assassinated by others.
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04-17-2003, 03:24 AM | #4 | ||
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But not anything to do with the Bible. The KJV was not produced until 1611AD, some one and a half millennia later. Quote:
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04-18-2003, 01:06 PM | #5 |
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The idea about the first Council of Nicaea is a common myth which does the rounds. I got interested in the idea a while back, and looked up every bit of ancient evidence on what did or did not happen at Nicaea. It's all available or linked to from
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html as I didn't want to have to look it all up twice. As far as I could tell, the earliest form of the legend appears in a 9th century Byzantine document, the Synodicon Vetus. (Relevant section is online) and was embroidered from there. The stuff about fist-fights etc is likewise no part of the historical record, but later legend. I've not tried to find out when that started to appear. It's important to remember that civilisation entered the Dark Ages after this period, and the natural human love of folk-tale replaced the by then defunct discipline of history, particularly in the Syriac east. This loss of knowledge is part of the reason it's called the Dark Ages. (And not just because part of the lost knowledge was how to change a light bulb! ) Don't be too misled by the mention of lists of canonical texts in 4th century councils. The ante-nicene fathers work with very much that set of works too, although some works are known only in certain geographical areas. Mention of canon usually means only that forgeries are circulating. For a monster version of such a thing, look at the Decretum Gelasianum: http://www.tertullian.org/decretum.htm For instance, St. Augustine mentions somewhere in his Retractions (I couldn't find it, tho) that he picked up old gnostic gospels on the stalls of the second-hand book-dealers, down on the quays in Carthage in bygone days. Since he was the organiser for the local council in 394, probably that list reflects that discovery. One thing I wondered: how *did* the canon of scripture become the universal legal rule? It's incredibly hard to find out. It's all very well referring to the canons of those local councils, but local councils don't set the dogma of the universal church. There is nothing, as far as I could see, that shows the canon of scripture becoming legally a canon. It just growed, out of the books apostolically founded churches started off with, or so the fathers seem to suggest. All the best, Roger Pearse |
04-18-2003, 06:29 PM | #6 |
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The Council of Trent maybe?
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04-18-2003, 06:59 PM | #7 | |
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As far as I can gather the various churches and writers used what seemed best to them and little effort was made to officialise anything until the fourth century. Though the things considered scripture by early writers largely agrees with what we have now. (And undoubtedly contributed to why we have what we have now) The fourth century saw a number of declarations on the subject. Firstly (perhaps) the council of Laodicea in 363. Athanasius in his regular Letter on the date of Easter took the opportunity in 367 to include a list of canonical books. His letter would probably have been widely considered authoritative since he was Bishop of Alexandria. As far as I can tell, all further declarations on the subject in the Western church concurred with Athanasius' letter with regard to the New Testament Canon. The Council at Rome in 382 seems to have agreed with Athanasius' New Testament, but also included the Apocrypha (and Ester) in the Old Testament. I understand that Pope Damasus in 384 issued a letter announcing that council's decision. All subsequent councils and declarations I am aware of in the Western Church (ie Council of Hippo 393, Council Carthage 397, a letter of Pope Innocent 1 in 405, another council of Carthage 419, Council of Florence 1441, Council of Trent 1556) agreed with this decision. |
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04-19-2003, 10:00 AM | #8 | ||||||
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Nevertheless, this seems anachronistic to me. All these churches were in communion in 400 AD. In what respect does the Orthodox canon of the New Testament differ from the RC one? Likewise, the Syriac, or Ethiopic? Quote:
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All the best, Roger Pearse |
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04-19-2003, 03:25 PM | #9 | ||||
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As far as I can understand the power of the apostletic sees in the ancient church, the Bishop of Alexandria appears to have had an authority not far short of that of the Bishop of Rome. Hence it seems likely to me that a letter such as this, from the Bishop of Alexandria to all the churches, would have carried quite a large amount of authority. Quote:
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I would guess anyway, that in light of the numerous declarations on the subject of the canon around the turn of the 5th century, that most churches probably got the hint and changed their canon to conform to those declarations if it didn't already. There would be little need for a universal council on the subject if all the churches already used the same canon. |
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04-19-2003, 04:17 PM | #10 | |
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Re: How did the Nicene Council influence the Bible?
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Meta => That shows a real misunderstanding about how the canon came to be. All of that was in place long before Nicea. So there's really no influence form Nicea to the Bible! Mithra doesnt' share a birthday with Jesus in the Bible, it never says what Jesus' birthday was in the Bible. That did come as an influence from Rome, because think about it! If you changed religion wouldn't you still want Christmass? No bigie. |
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