Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Dr Rick · 03-12-2003, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
The bacteria gets "used" to the antibiotics and eventually becomes immune to it. Same concept as weight lifting.

This poster does not understand evolution, microbiology, or exercise physiology...

Rick

Shadowy Man · 03-12-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dr Rick
This poster does not understand evolution, micorbiology, or exercise physiology...

An ignorance hat trick!!

Happy Wonderer · 03-12-2003, 10:24 PM

Uh, Gabe -- are you there? If you are listening, just tap the receiver twice...

HW

Advocatus Diaboli · 03-13-2003, 04:56 AM

I need more info about beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Since beneficial mutations in plants, microbes and bacteria don't impress creationists("they're just plants, they're just bacteria, etc ad infinitum..."), I've been asked to post proof of beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Thank you very much.

Oolon Colluphid · 03-13-2003, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Advocatus Diaboli
I need more info about beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Since beneficial mutations in plants, microbes and bacteria don't impress creationists("they're just plants, they're just bacteria, etc ad infinitum..."), I've been asked to post proof of beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Thank you very much.

Try human tolerance of lactose, and Examples of Beneficial Mutations in Humans.

Of course, these mutants are �still human�...

Cheers, Oolon

Godless Dave · 03-13-2003, 07:10 AM

I'm pretty happy about my opposable thumbs. I guess you could call them beneficial.

Happy Wonderer · 03-13-2003, 09:28 AM

One can't forget the mutations that confer resistance to malaria...Glycophoron C

One insight that I have gained on this forum is how flexible chemical systems are. We tend to think in terms of human engineering or programming, where even a slightly out-of-spec part can cause a system to fail. In chemical systems, there are several "solutions" to a problem. (Darn it, I'm not familiar enough with the terms to say this clearly, help?) There are many different ways to fold a molocule so that it has a certain effect -- such as binding to oxygen in such a way that it can be released by a particular enzyme later. IOW, you can change the 'shape' of a cell's receptors so that they avoid the parasite yet still function.

I believe that thinking in terms of human engineering is what makes people think that evolution is impossible.

HW

Treacle Worshipper · 03-13-2003, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darwin's Terrier

Questions?

TTFN, DT

Yes!
What is that a picture of - a bat or a bird? And why are its legs at right angles?
Thanks in advance,
TW

Doubting Didymus · 03-13-2003, 02:17 PM

Its a bat, and that's just how many bats use their legs. I must admit I'm not entirely certain what DT is trying to say by posting it, however. Something to do with homology maybe?

babelfish · 03-13-2003, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Magus55
Very very bad example of evolution. The bacteria gets "used" to the antibiotics and eventually becomes immune to it. Same concept as weight lifting. If you keep doing the same exercises over and over with no variation, your muscles will get used to the exercise and never increase.

Here, Magus, maybe this would help:

Bacteria "get used" to antibiotics, just like muscles get built by lifting weights?

That would be true if, instead of going to the gym, small wimpy people with no muscles simply died before they were able to reproduce. Then, only people who were built like Arnold and Claude (but born that way, no exertion at the gym required) would be able to bear children.

Let's say women were attracted exclusively to men who had abnormal amounts of steroids naturally occurring in their systems. All other men (men built like Alan Alda) would never be able to reproduce.

Soon, the world would be full of very muscular men. And Gold's would go out of business.

03-12-2003, 10:24 PM	#23
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	Have we been disconnected? Uh, Gabe -- are you there? If you are listening, just tap the receiver twice... HW

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03-13-2003, 04:56 AM	#24
Advocatus Diaboli Regular Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 372	I need more info about beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Since beneficial mutations in plants, microbes and bacteria don't impress creationists("they're just plants, they're just bacteria, etc ad infinitum..."), I've been asked to post proof of beneficial mutations in vertebrate. Thank you very much.

03-13-2003, 07:10 AM	#26
Godless Dave Contributor Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: With 10,000 lakes who needs a coast? Posts: 10,762	I'm pretty happy about my opposable thumbs. I guess you could call them beneficial.

03-13-2003, 09:28 AM	#27
Happy Wonderer Veteran Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, the least religious state Posts: 5,334	One can't forget the mutations that confer resistance to malaria...Glycophoron C One insight that I have gained on this forum is how flexible chemical systems are. We tend to think in terms of human engineering or programming, where even a slightly out-of-spec part can cause a system to fail. In chemical systems, there are several "solutions" to a problem. (Darn it, I'm not familiar enough with the terms to say this clearly, help?) There are many different ways to fold a molocule so that it has a certain effect -- such as binding to oxygen in such a way that it can be released by a particular enzyme later. IOW, you can change the 'shape' of a cell's receptors so that they avoid the parasite yet still function. I believe that thinking in terms of human engineering is what makes people think that evolution is impossible. HW

03-13-2003, 02:17 PM	#29
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	Its a bat, and that's just how many bats use their legs. I must admit I'm not entirely certain what DT is trying to say by posting it, however. Something to do with homology maybe?

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