Freethought & Rationalism Archive

02-24-2002, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman:
In classical India there were ordeals to establish a person's guilt, if normal methods fail. One of them is the ordeal by oath:
" the accused would swear by the gods that he is innocent. If within three weeks of his swearing the oath, no calamity befalls him then he is to be judged innocent. If calamity does fall on him, then he is guilty.
But this oath is not to be administered to an atheist. In the case of an atheist such an ordeal is invalid."

does this mean gods cannot punish atheists?

They obviously believe in the communion of the saints and that the steps of a good man are ordered by the Lord.

Atheist are not immune from God but outside of this fellowship and on their own. They would be in our "limbo" and will in time write their own destiny, either in this or the following generation.

We also believe that vengeance is not ours and that God will repay. Since we are of little faith we actually do not believe what we preach and lock up those that we call losers but forget that they are only losers because we are winners. In fact we wrote the laws so we can take advantage of them -- or political campaining and advertising would not work . . . which now means that speach was given to man to hide his secret thoughts. Those that are succesfull now get to lock up those that are not.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

02-24-2002, 01:53 PM

Well folks, I agree that my last paragraph was a bit of a stretch but maybe not in some cases.

As for atheist being convicted by our religious laws? No they are not and are therefore in limbo (unless they can't shake their own conscience). Let me put it this way, if Buddhists are not convicted of sin through our religious laws why should atheists be? If atheists are not convicted why should anybody be if in the end they are an illusion anyway but have a purpose of their own which was the conviction of sin?

Amos

Arrowman · 02-24-2002, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman:
...so is this recognition that atheists by virtue of their disbelief are immune from god?

No, it's because we don't weigh the same as a duck

Panta Pei · 02-24-2002, 08:44 PM

"Poor guy, so much for a fair trial."

Hey, Amos, its called Humor...sheesh

02-24-2002, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panta Pei:
"Poor guy, so much for a fair trial."

Hey, Amos, its called Humor...sheesh

Well take it easy on the poor guy and remember that we slanted the book in our favor.

echidna · 02-24-2002, 10:03 PM

Apologies for the post length, but to echo Arrowman, as an alternative English justice system, I find Belvedere�s following reasoning hard to fault :

From the incomparable
<a href="http://www.wuzzle.org/cave/mpwit.html" target="_blank">"The Holy Grail"</a> :

B: Quiet, quiet, quiet, QUIET! There are ways of *telling* whether she is a witch!
Villagers: Are there? What? Tell us, then! Tell us!
B: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
V: BUUUURN!!!!! BUUUUUURRRRNN!!!!! You BURN them!!!! BURN!!
B: And what do you burn apart from witches?
Villager: More Witches!
Other Villager: Wood.
B: So. Why do witches burn?

(long silence)
(shuffling of feet by the villagers)

Villager: (tentatively) Because they're made of.....wood?
B: Goooood!
Other Villagers: oh yeah... oh....
B: So. How do we tell whether she is made of wood?
One Villager: Build a bridge out of 'er!
B: Aah. But can you not also make bridges out of stone?
Villagers: oh yeah. oh. umm...
B: Does wood sink in water?
One Villager: No! No, no, it floats!
Other Villager: Throw her into the pond!
Villagers: yaaaaaa!

(when order is restored)

B: What also floats in water?
Villager: Bread!
Another Villager: Apples!
Another Villager: Uh...very small rocks!
Another Villager: Cider!
Another Villager: Uh...great gravy!
Another Villager: Cherries!
Another Villager: Mud!
Another Villager: Churches! Churches!
Another Villager: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck!
Villagers: (in amazement) ooooooh!
B: exACTly!
B: (to a villager) So, *logically*...

Villager: (very slowly, with pauses between each word) If...she...weighs the same as a duck......she's made of wood.

B: and therefore... (pause)

Villager: A Witch!
All Villagers: A WITCH!

bluefugue · 02-24-2002, 10:18 PM

It's Bedivere, actually.

whouprog · 02-24-2002, 11:49 PM

The original topic reminds me of the old joke with the punch line being the voice of God, booming from the heavens, saying: "Shit! Missed again!"

Panta Pei · 02-25-2002, 12:03 AM

"Well take it easy on the poor guy and remember that we slanted the book in our favor."

I sure wish I had an Amos(tm) decoder ring or something

That said:

I neither 'take it easy' nor 'put it hard' on anyone. I merely present case facts, circumstances and evidence.

Had you known these case facts, you would not consider him a 'poor guy'. You may, however, find some sympathy for the victim who is 18 and now paralyzed due to the acts of the defendant.

Thanks for the zen moment

02-25-2002, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panta Pei:
[QBThanks for the zen moment

[/QB]

You might have just said "thanks" for providing you with a way out.

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02-24-2002, 01:53 PM	#12
Amos Guest Posts: n/a	Well folks, I agree that my last paragraph was a bit of a stretch but maybe not in some cases. As for atheist being convicted by our religious laws? No they are not and are therefore in limbo (unless they can't shake their own conscience). Let me put it this way, if Buddhists are not convicted of sin through our religious laws why should atheists be? If atheists are not convicted why should anybody be if in the end they are an illusion anyway but have a purpose of their own which was the conviction of sin? Amos

02-24-2002, 08:44 PM	#14
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	"Poor guy, so much for a fair trial." Hey, Amos, its called Humor...sheesh

02-24-2002, 10:03 PM	#16
echidna Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 2,832	Apologies for the post length, but to echo Arrowman, as an alternative English justice system, I find Belvedere�s following reasoning hard to fault : From the incomparable <a href="http://www.wuzzle.org/cave/mpwit.html" target="_blank">"The Holy Grail"</a> : B: Quiet, quiet, quiet, QUIET! There are ways of telling whether she is a witch! Villagers: Are there? What? Tell us, then! Tell us! B: Tell me. What do you do with witches? V: BUUUURN!!!!! BUUUUUURRRRNN!!!!! You BURN them!!!! BURN!! B: And what do you burn apart from witches? Villager: More Witches! Other Villager: Wood. B: So. Why do witches burn? (long silence) (shuffling of feet by the villagers) Villager: (tentatively) Because they're made of.....wood? B: Goooood! Other Villagers: oh yeah... oh.... B: So. How do we tell whether she is made of wood? One Villager: Build a bridge out of 'er! B: Aah. But can you not also make bridges out of stone? Villagers: oh yeah. oh. umm... B: Does wood sink in water? One Villager: No! No, no, it floats! Other Villager: Throw her into the pond! Villagers: yaaaaaa! (when order is restored) B: What also floats in water? Villager: Bread! Another Villager: Apples! Another Villager: Uh...very small rocks! Another Villager: Cider! Another Villager: Uh...great gravy! Another Villager: Cherries! Another Villager: Mud! Another Villager: Churches! Churches! Another Villager: Lead! Lead! King Arthur: A Duck! Villagers: (in amazement) ooooooh! B: exACTly! B: (to a villager) So, logically... Villager: (very slowly, with pauses between each word) If...she...weighs the same as a duck......she's made of wood. B: and therefore... (pause) Villager: A Witch! All Villagers: A WITCH!

02-24-2002, 10:18 PM	#17
bluefugue Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,427	It's Bedivere, actually.

02-24-2002, 11:49 PM	#18
whouprog Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 45	The original topic reminds me of the old joke with the punch line being the voice of God, booming from the heavens, saying: "Shit! Missed again!"

02-25-2002, 12:03 AM	#19
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	"Well take it easy on the poor guy and remember that we slanted the book in our favor." I sure wish I had an Amos(tm) decoder ring or something That said: I neither 'take it easy' nor 'put it hard' on anyone. I merely present case facts, circumstances and evidence. Had you known these case facts, you would not consider him a 'poor guy'. You may, however, find some sympathy for the victim who is 18 and now paralyzed due to the acts of the defendant. Thanks for the zen moment

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