Freethought & Rationalism Archive

hinduwoman · 02-23-2002, 06:02 PM

In classical India there were ordeals to establish a person's guilt, if normal methods fail. One of them is the ordeal by oath:
" the accused would swear by the gods that he is innocent. If within three weeks of his swearing the oath, no calamity befalls him then he is to be judged innocent. If calamity does fall on him, then he is guilty.
But this oath is not to be administered to an atheist. In the case of an atheist such an ordeal is invalid."

does this mean gods cannot punish atheists?

Interestingly, the water ordeal (the accused has to hold his breath for a certain period of time) cannot be given to professional divers or fishermen, and the fireordesl cannot be applied in the case of firewalkers and conjuerers.

so is this recognition that atheists by virtue of their disbelief are immune from god?

Sephiroth · 02-24-2002, 12:24 AM

I guess there's a little atheist in all of us

.

RyanS2 · 02-24-2002, 12:41 AM

Very interesting. I wonder though, for people who are just accident prone, are they considered to be constantly punished by the gods?

Orpheous99 · 02-24-2002, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hinduwoman:
In classical India there were ordeals to establish a person's guilt, if normal methods fail. One of them is the ordeal by oath:
" the accused would swear by the gods that he is innocent. If within three weeks of his swearing the oath, no calamity befalls him then he is to be judged innocent. If calamity does fall on him, then he is guilty.
But this oath is not to be administered to an atheist. In the case of an atheist such an ordeal is invalid."

does this mean gods cannot punish atheists?

Interestingly, the water ordeal (the accused has to hold his breath for a certain period of time) cannot be given to professional divers or fishermen, and the fireordesl cannot be applied in the case of firewalkers and conjuerers.

so is this recognition that atheists by virtue of their disbelief are immune from god?

In anicent Rome men would swear an oath by holding their testes as in saying that if I'm lying that you can cut them off. This is where they get the term testify from. Women couldn't swear oaths, or testify, because of this.

Panta Pei · 02-24-2002, 03:32 AM

"In anicent Rome men would swear an oath by holding their testes as in saying that if I'm lying that you can cut them off. This is where they get the term testify from."

Now, how the hell am I supposed to maintain my cool in court on Monday

tronvillain · 02-24-2002, 03:39 AM

From <a href="http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm" target="_blank">Wordorigins</a>:

Quote:

Testify

There is bit of folklore floating about that the word testify (with its associated forms like testimony and testament) derives from testicle . The legend has it that ancient Romans would hold their testes while swearing oaths. This is not true. The word does not derive from testicle, nor did Romans swear oaths on their private parts.

Testify , et. al., derives from the Latin testis meaning witness. Testicle also derives from testis. The testes are witnesses to a man's virility.

It always pays to be skeptical.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: tronvillain ]

Panta Pei · 02-24-2002, 04:04 AM

O.K., but the clarification may be no better come Monday

That, and Helen's 'penis puppets' article may have me irretrievably lost in the 'giggle loop'.

All those eyes...the oath...'testes'-fying...man, that jackass better plead!

~ Steve

Orpheous99 · 02-24-2002, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tronvillain:
From <a href="http://www.wordorigins.org/wordort.htm" target="_blank">Wordorigins</a>:

It always pays to be skeptical.

There is a reason why they both have the same origins, or roots.

02-24-2002, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Panta Pei:
All those eyes...the oath...'testes'-fying...man, that jackass better plead!

~ Steve

Poor guy, so much for a fair trial.

02-24-2002, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RyanS2:
Very interesting. I wonder though, for people who are just accident prone, are they considered to be constantly punished by the gods?

"Just accident prone?" So now you believe in luck and I wonder if that is out of oblivion or wisdom?

02-23-2002, 06:02 PM	#1
hinduwoman Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: India Posts: 6,977	Atheists are immune? In classical India there were ordeals to establish a person's guilt, if normal methods fail. One of them is the ordeal by oath: " the accused would swear by the gods that he is innocent. If within three weeks of his swearing the oath, no calamity befalls him then he is to be judged innocent. If calamity does fall on him, then he is guilty. But this oath is not to be administered to an atheist. In the case of an atheist such an ordeal is invalid." does this mean gods cannot punish atheists? Interestingly, the water ordeal (the accused has to hold his breath for a certain period of time) cannot be given to professional divers or fishermen, and the fireordesl cannot be applied in the case of firewalkers and conjuerers. so is this recognition that atheists by virtue of their disbelief are immune from god?

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02-24-2002, 12:24 AM	#2
Sephiroth Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Georgia, USA Posts: 625	I guess there's a little atheist in all of us .

02-24-2002, 12:41 AM	#3
RyanS2 Regular Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Louisiana Posts: 216	Very interesting. I wonder though, for people who are just accident prone, are they considered to be constantly punished by the gods?

02-24-2002, 03:32 AM	#5
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	"In anicent Rome men would swear an oath by holding their testes as in saying that if I'm lying that you can cut them off. This is where they get the term testify from." Now, how the hell am I supposed to maintain my cool in court on Monday

02-24-2002, 04:04 AM	#7
Panta Pei Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: in the middle of things Posts: 722	O.K., but the clarification may be no better come Monday That, and Helen's 'penis puppets' article may have me irretrievably lost in the 'giggle loop'. All those eyes...the oath...'testes'-fying...man, that jackass better plead! ~ Steve

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