xeren

Okay, the more bible threads I read, the more confused I am about the nature of why people even believe the bible is true.

This may be a stupid question, but even if one were to concede that the bible is a collection of writings from the first and second centuries, unaltered by interpolations for 2000 years, isn't there still the large problem that none of it can be proven to be true?

So what if independent writings speak of the same events, and it is written that Paul's life was changed for ever! Doesn't it all still have to answer to the simple fact that "just because it's written, doesn't mean it's true?"

-xeren

Peter Kirby

Hi xeren,

A good way to start this thread would be to define what it would mean to say "the Bible is true."

best,
Peter Kirby

xeren

when i say "just because it's written, doesn't make it true" i mean "just because something is written doesn't make what was written" true.

so i don't mean to say that it doesn't make the bible true, i mean to say that it doesn't make what is written in the bible true.

Baidarka

It ain't necessarily so - Porgy & Bess

It ain't necessarily so,
It ain't necessarily so,
De t'ings dat yo' li'ble
To read in de Bible,
It ain't necessarily so.

Li'I David was small, but oh my!
Li'I David was small but oh my!
He fought big Goliath
Who lay down an' dieth,
Li'I David was small, but oh my!

Wa-doo - Zim bam boodle-oo,
Hoodle ah da wa da - Scatty wah. Yeah!

Oh, Jonah, he lived in a whale,
Oh, Jonah, he lived in a whale,
Fo' he made his home in
Dat fish's abdomen.
Oh, Jonah, he lived in a whale.

Li'I Moses was found in a stream,
Li'I Moses was found in a stream,
He floated on water
Till ol' Pharaoh's daughter
Fished him, she said from dat stream.

Wa-doo - Zim bam boodle-oo,
Hoodle ah da wa sa - Scatty wah. Yeah!

It ain't necessarily so,
It ain't necessarily so,
Dey tell all you chillun
De debble's a villun
But'tain't necessarily so.

To get into Hebben,
Don't snap for a sebben!
Live clean, Don' have no fault.
(Look at me!)
I jus' takes dat gospel
Whenever it's pos'ble.
But wid a grain o' salt.

Methuselah lived nine hundred years,
Methuselah lived nine hundred years,
Say, but what's good o' livin'
When no gal'll give in
To no man what's nine hundred years?

I'm preachin' this sermon to show
It ain't nessa, 'tain't nessa,
'tain't nessa, 'tain't nessa,
'Tain't necessarily so.

CX

This strikes me as a distinction without a difference. I believe Peter's question is more aimed at one's definition of "true". If by "true" one means precisely historical accurate and depicting real events then my answer would yes for some parts and no for others. On the other hand I suspect there is some controversy as to whether the NT was ever intended to be historico-biographical rather than theological tractate.

xeren

Sorry, that's what I meant.

Peter Kirby

Does anyone here believe that the Bible is true in the sense that it is precisely accurate historically and depicts literally true events throughout?

best,
Peter Kirby

xeren

Hmm. Maybe I'm not being specific enough. I think what I'm more interested in is the NT. What I'm trying to get at is, when people say "How do you explain the empty tomb!?" or "Why would Jesus's disciple continue to preach, and risk being martyred if they knew it was all a lie!?" doesn't the NT still have to answer to "just because it's written doesn't make it true"? I mean, sure, the Bible says that the disciples continued to preach after jesus was resurrected, but that doesn't mean that they actually did.

Baidarka

"when i say "just because it's written, doesn't make it true" i mean "just because something is written doesn't make what was written" true.

so i don't mean to say that it doesn't make the bible true, i mean to say that it doesn't make what is written in the bible true."

You got me there. I've read these 2 sentences over and over and I still don't know what your trying to say.

Are you saying that the Bible could be true in the sense of its being an accurate transcription of the original texts but at the same time be untrue in that the original texts may stray from truth?

Are you saying that the Bible could be telling us great truths about life, morality, and religion but the stories it uses to illustrate its points may be apocryphal?

Are you saying that the Bible is true as a macrocosm but untrue in the microcosm?

Please try to fill in these blanks.

1- The Bible could be true in that it _________________________________________

2- The Bible could be false in that it _________________________________________

Answerer

Well, actually, my hometown christian friends do and there are lots of them as well. So, what do you think I should tell them in order to convince them otherwise?


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