Biff the unclean

I know, I know. But the Prods want to pretend that their 16th century heretical version of Catholicism is a recreation of the "original" Christianity. While the only record of a pre 325 CE Christianity we have comes from the Catholics and swears up and down that before Constantine there were only good Catholics who believed exactly as they did right back to the original Pope St Peter and some nasty burn in hell Gnostic types who weren't Protestant anyway. Which is just what you would expect the Catholics to claim anyway if it were true or not.
You're both loony.

Amos

Yes they do and therefore claim apostolic tradition on the anthema side of the church right back to Peter and the whole lot that walked out on him after the "consecration of bread and wine" sermon.

I have no objection to you calling it loony but if there is a truth it deserves to be defended which is especially true if the well being of our civilization depends on it.

Biff the unclean

And that was exactly what I was doing and exactly why I was doing it.

Spaz

Yeah, maybe I should've explained more in the original post, I apologize. What I was really saying is that both catholicism and protestantism uses the bible and christ and whatever, but have two different views (not counting the 20 million different denominations) that stem from (mostly) the same book. What I was asking was if there was scriptural evidence for things such as purgatory, etc. then why did the protestants change that? If it's in scripture and obvious to catholics then why is it not to protestants? The question "what did catholics make up?" meant "what things have scriptural evidence and what things don't?"

Biff the unclean

The Catholics have a much bigger bible than the Prods do.
The problem was that the Pope controlled most of the trade in Europe and the Hapsburgs wanted to cut in on the church's monolopy. That's the under lying reason for the reformation. What's is "scripture" or not was only window dressing.

Loki

Much of the seemingly random catholic practices stem from much extrapolation/interpolation of scripture.

Amos

Yes, but our point here is "you don't undestand and you can't see that because you don't understand."

Radorth

Heh. Oh dear Amos.

I take it you don't consider speaking in tongues, which the Pope finally "blessed" 80 years after Asusa, communication with God. That's funny, Paul thinks it's direct communication, which unfortunately all but a small number of Catholics, and virtually no Popes, ever engaged in.

Perhaps that's why they made up things, founded on Pagan thought, and call them "revelation."

Rad

Amos

Hi Radorth, he probably blessed it to quench opposition but it is probably the most decieving gift that leads protestants into thinking that they are special. It does confirm an innitiation but that only becomes a hindrance if it becomes a measure of righteousness. It is the least of the gifts and will never bear fruits other than self righteousness.

Radorth

You mean you don't even have the least of the gifts? I suppose you would rather prophesy spontaneously then, because Paul says that is a better gift. No, you'd rather remove a scripture from all context just as skeptics do.

I suggest self-righteouness prevents one from "seeking the best gifts." What righteous person has any need of them? Not that God would give them one anyway. He's more interested in using obscure, one-eyed black preachers to recover such lowly gifts and give them to a few humble Catholics 80 years later. It just amazes me how people who never experienced something know all about it.

It is quite true "self-righteous" people could have had one of these gifts, but there is a tendency to try to reproduce them in the flesh when God is long gone. That my friend, is the historical record and practice of the church. Every time you try to organize, indoctrinate, denominate, build alters and buildings, and start to say "we are his favorites," he's already gone.

"The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

Rad