Ron Singh

What's wrong with sikhism? (hands off of the existence of God, since I've read debates about that thousands of times before) I'm talking about inconsistent scriptures or beleifs. (I suppose you can argue the turban issue, but try to give me some other points that are fresh and new). Thanks a lot, and may god bless you

missus_gumby

Which god?

Malaclypse the Younger

Don't know. What does Sikhism assert as objectively true?

Deciding to wear a turban and a beard sounds like a matter of personal taste; if it suits you, it's none of my business.

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: Malaclypse the Younger ]</p>

beachbum

What about the habit of carrying a dagger in your boot?

emotional

There's this from the source:

<a href="http://www.sikhs.org/khalsa.htm" target="_blank">http://www.sikhs.org/khalsa.htm</a>

Trouble here, at least for me, is that I like being a Manmukh and I'm proud of it, and I don't want to make any step towards becoming a Gurmukh. I like the material world, I like material, natural, carnal delights (and I don't believe in matter/mind dualism), and I don't want to have anything to do with the hidden, the occult - and that means God too.

But the spiritual man does not receive the things of Nature, for they are foolishness to him; nor does he understand them, for they are naturally discerned.

(edited to fix a faulty tag)

[ March 05, 2002: Message edited by: devnet ]</p>

Eudaimonist

How about this for an improvement? (Not at all related to Sikhism.)

Spiritual Development

Stage 1: Parent Centered

A person in this childish stage depends on a parental figure, real or imagined, to provide dinner, blow one's nose, and enforce justice.

Stage 2: Identity Centered

This stage is the birth of thinking for oneself, and the establishment of personal identity and independence so important to adolescence. It can be a "selfish" stage in the negative sense, but is crucial for...

Stage 3: Wisdom Centered

The mature phase. Having established one's individuality and chosen one's goals in life, the mature individual is now capable of taking responsibility of pursuing those goals, and understanding the importance of friendship and other types of relationships to oneself. This individual is capable of seeing the "big picture" without losing sight of oneself in the process.

Note: it is possible for adults to get stuck in stages 1 or 2.

ohwilleke

I am certainly skeptical about a new religion popping onto the scene in recent history.

Koiyotnik

Hey--I'm all for this one.
Who needs spiritual enlightenment when they have a nice car?
I mean, God's never given me a Corvette.

Grizzly

hey devnet - thanks for the link. Here is an interesting quote from that page.

It seems that in this passage, they are trying to say that people need to focus on the One True God(TM) and that some of the other activities associated with other religions detract from this. Like:

1) Fasting
2) Pilgimages
3) Alms-giving

etc... It really sounds like they are trying to simplify things and focus on the One True God(TM). Don't do this other stuff. It's unecessary. Except that they also require

1) Uncut hair
2) Turbin
3) comb
4) steel bracelet
5) ceremonial underpants
6) ceremonial sword

Now, to me, this seems like a contradiction. It's like saying, don't do all of the foolish stuff that other religions want you to do. Do our foolish stuff instead.

It reminds me of a scene from the Life of Brian, where they are chasing Brian through the streets, and he loses his sandal and drinking gourd. One group of people pick up the sandal and start shouting "Follow the Holy Sandal! Follow the Holy Sandal!" and the other half pick up the gourd and shout "No, ignore the sandal, follow the Holy Gourd!"

The bottom line is that every religion has its own beliefs and rituals - and they all look pretty silly to me.

Ron Singh

Well if you're happy being a Manmukh, power be to you.

Eudaimonia, that list is interesting, however it hardly seems logical to label it
spiritual development, perhaps personal enlightenment? I don't know.

God's never given me any kind of car either. But then again neither have my dad, neighbor, dog, nor you. I don't think I beleive in any of those people now.



Please read your previous quote that you have cited:

As you can see, Guru Gobind Singh Ji wrote this to say that these acts will get you no closer to God, and will not spiritually benefit you. I as a sikh may go to Mecca and learn of Islam and of its traditions, but to think that it will aid me attain godliness is foolish, and is not sikh. This example that you provided only pertains to the mindset of the sikh.

A sikh knows that just keeping:
is just a waste of metal and time, unless the mindset and actions of a sikh truly reflect that of a true sikh.Blind rituals and ceremonies have no place in sikhism.

It's not kept in a boot. It's traditionally placed on a strap around the shoulder, showing readiness of a sikh to protect the poor and defenceless. I don't see what's wrong with this.


Well, thanks for your input. Personally, I'm kind of dissapointed, and thought that I'de get more arguements against Sikhism, perhaps I will as this discussion continues. Thank you and May God Bless You