Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Incoherent fool · 07-23-2003, 12:50 AM

I've been thinking about a "flaw" in the Christian teaching about being saved. Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I thought I'd share this with you.

I used to be a Christian but fortunately I got to my senses and gave all that crap up. At one time I really believed the stories in the bible and Jesus' divinity and accepted him into my heart (now that I think of it, I'm not exactly sure what that means

).

Anyway, I'll get to my point. Christians (especially fundies) stress the importance of "accepting Jebus" before it's too late. I could die tomorrow, you know! But that's okay. I've already accepted Jebus. You see, I haven't heard a Christian say anything about having to be a Christian at the moment of my death to go to heaven.

In fact, I've been told that you only need to accept him once and that's it. They don't say anything about losing belief.

So there. The next time a fundy tells me to REPENT!! REPENT!! I'll tell them I've already been saved.

Doctor X · 07-23-2003, 12:53 AM

Saved? Yes.

But are you invested?

--J.D.

Basil · 07-23-2003, 01:43 AM

If they are Calvinistic, they will tell you that eternal security is only for genuine Christians, who are known by their fruit; since your fruit is "unbelief", then you are not a genuine Christian and haven't really "accepted Jesus."

If they are Arminian then they will flat out tell you you lost your salvation and need to repent and accept all over again.

That's the fundy trap: make the bait attractive (all you need is to believe - works are no part of it), but they close the net too (faith without works is dead! by their fruit ye shall know them! etc.)

Rational BAC · 07-23-2003, 01:43 AM

Anybody who has been christened or baptized has been saved. That is what that ceremony is all about.

The Fundies make a big to-do about something that is true of almost all Christians from a time shortly after birth.

Magus55 · 07-23-2003, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Anybody who has been christened or baptized has been saved. That is what that ceremony is all about.

The Fundies make a big to-do about something that is true of almost all Christians from a time shortly after birth.

Are you referring to Baptism by water, or by the Holy Spirit? Baptism by water doesn't save at all.

mike_decock · 07-23-2003, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Incoherent fool
Anyway, I'll get to my point. Christians (especially fundies) stress the importance of "accepting Jebus" before it's too late. I could die tomorrow, you know! But that's okay. I've already accepted Jebus. You see, I haven't heard a Christian say anything about having to be a Christian at the moment of my death to go to heaven.

If we take into consideration the notion that God is eternal and exists in a different time reference than us, why should it matter when during our lifespan we "accepted jebus"? It's all the same to God anyway, right?

-Mike...

Milton · 07-23-2003, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Incoherent fool
I've been thinking about a "flaw" in the Christian teaching about being saved. Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I thought I'd share this with you.

I used to be a Christian but fortunately I got to my senses and gave all that crap up. At one time I really believed the stories in the bible and Jesus' divinity and accepted him into my heart (now that I think of it, I'm not exactly sure what that means ).

Anyway, I'll get to my point. Christians (especially fundies) stress the importance of "accepting Jebus" before it's too late. I could die tomorrow, you know! But that's okay. I've already accepted Jebus. You see, I haven't heard a Christian say anything about having to be a Christian at the moment of my death to go to heaven.

In fact, I've been told that you only need to accept him once and that's it. They don't say anything about losing belief.

So there. The next time a fundy tells me to REPENT!! REPENT!! I'll tell them I've already been saved.

You rely on OSAS? And you claim that you were a Christian?
Did you ever read this:

"it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame" (Hebrews 6:6)

So much for your flaw...

Incoherent fool · 07-23-2003, 01:16 PM

What's OSAS?

BadBadBad · 07-23-2003, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rational BAC
Anybody who has been christened or baptized has been saved.

RBAC, you've posted this as fact. Is it a fact?

No, of course it's not a fact, and I can see you're already getting in trouble with Magus. Care to offer any rational premise to support this proposition?

Incoherent fool · 07-23-2003, 01:27 PM

Nevermind, I answered my own question. At sunday school they always told me to believe once and that's it. But they never mentioned what would happen if I completely lost my belief and whether that would get me into heaven or not.

07-23-2003, 12:50 AM	#1
Incoherent fool Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 293	I've already been saved! I've been thinking about a "flaw" in the Christian teaching about being saved. Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but I thought I'd share this with you. I used to be a Christian but fortunately I got to my senses and gave all that crap up. At one time I really believed the stories in the bible and Jesus' divinity and accepted him into my heart (now that I think of it, I'm not exactly sure what that means ). Anyway, I'll get to my point. Christians (especially fundies) stress the importance of "accepting Jebus" before it's too late. I could die tomorrow, you know! But that's okay. I've already accepted Jebus. You see, I haven't heard a Christian say anything about having to be a Christian at the moment of my death to go to heaven. In fact, I've been told that you only need to accept him once and that's it. They don't say anything about losing belief. So there. The next time a fundy tells me to REPENT!! REPENT!! I'll tell them I've already been saved.

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07-23-2003, 12:53 AM	#2
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	Saved? Yes. But are you invested? --J.D.

07-23-2003, 01:43 AM	#3
Basil Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: philippines Posts: 6	If they are Calvinistic, they will tell you that eternal security is only for genuine Christians, who are known by their fruit; since your fruit is "unbelief", then you are not a genuine Christian and haven't really "accepted Jesus." If they are Arminian then they will flat out tell you you lost your salvation and need to repent and accept all over again. That's the fundy trap: make the bait attractive (all you need is to believe - works are no part of it), but they close the net too (faith without works is dead! by their fruit ye shall know them! etc.)

07-23-2003, 01:43 AM	#4
Rational BAC Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Tampa Bay area Posts: 3,471	Anybody who has been christened or baptized has been saved. That is what that ceremony is all about. The Fundies make a big to-do about something that is true of almost all Christians from a time shortly after birth.

07-23-2003, 01:16 PM	#8
Incoherent fool Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 293	What's OSAS?

07-23-2003, 01:27 PM	#10
Incoherent fool Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 293	Nevermind, I answered my own question. At sunday school they always told me to believe once and that's it. But they never mentioned what would happen if I completely lost my belief and whether that would get me into heaven or not.

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