Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Blu · 09-12-2002, 12:51 PM

The previous entry has been deleted. Apologies go out to those who really wanted to share their ideas in a non-judgmental and non-condescending manner.

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]

Jayhawker Soule · 09-12-2002, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
First, let's strip away the word, "God." ... Let's use the word, "Universe."

"That's a great deal to make one word mean," Alice said in a thoughtful tone.

"When I make a word do a lot of work like that," said Humpty Dumpty, "I always pay it extra."

—Through the Looking Glass, 1872

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
Do we agree that aspects within the Universe brought about the creation of our solar system according to theory?

No, mainly because I do not find the sentence at all meaningful except, perhaps, as a clumsy effort at stealth teleology.

Blu · 09-12-2002, 01:10 PM

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]

Jayhawker Soule · 09-12-2002, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
Reasonable,

Please feel free to actually argue the ideas I brought up in the actual post.

Please explain what is meant by the assertion:

'aspects within [God] brought about the creation of our solar system according to theory'.

Please explain if this differs from the assertion:

'according to theory, 'aspects within [God] brought about the creation of our solar system'.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Blu · 09-12-2002, 01:38 PM

]

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]

Jayhawker Soule · 09-12-2002, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
I guess I failed to make it clear is that I believe when people are "talking" or "writing about" God, they are actually referring to the Universe.

Why do you believe that's what they are doing? Why don't you just ask them?

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
They simply name it God and then give it human characteristics to feel closer to it.

Leaving aside the observation that this sounds a bit condescending, do you include in this set of false attributions such things as purpose/intentionality?

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
So what I am saying is aspects (naturally occuring phenomena) within the Universe brought about the solar system... the solar system utilized naturally occuring phenomena to develop the earth.. the earth then utilized naturally occuring phenomenon to develop life on the planet and all life utilized naturally occuring phenomenon to evolve. But all are one Unifying system of the Universe.

What does it mean to say, for example, that "the solar system utilized naturally occuring phenomena to develop the earth"? Was the earth an intent or a consequence? What is the difference between "Unifying" system and 'system'?

What I see is exactly what I expected to see, teleology achieved through word play.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Blu · 09-12-2002, 02:54 PM

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]

Blu · 09-12-2002, 03:09 PM

[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]

Jayhawker Soule · 09-12-2002, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blu:
"What is the difference between Unifying system compared to just a system?" [ ... ]
Do you see what I mean?

I see that you have access to a dictionary. I see that you continue to promote your talk about absolute/relative truth. I see you boldly assert that the Universe is. I see that you have not answered the question asked.

What I don't see is that you 'mean' anything.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: ReasonableDoubt ]

Jobar · 09-12-2002, 04:12 PM

Well, I see what you mean, Blu. It's just very hard to talk about such rarified abstractions.

One of the fathers of quantum mechanics- perhaps Einstein himself- said something like "the real marvel of existence is that it makes any sense at all!" Not the exact quote, but close. This relationship between sense and universe, consciousness and reality, subject and object, observer and observed, has been investigated in many ways. I think that this search is the defining aspect of humanity. We have searched in many ways, for many millenia. I think that this search is the root of both religion and science.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Jobar ]

09-12-2002, 12:51 PM	#1
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	Lost in Definitions... It has been erased. The previous entry has been deleted. Apologies go out to those who really wanted to share their ideas in a non-judgmental and non-condescending manner. [ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]</p>

09-12-2002, 01:10 PM	#3
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]</p>

09-12-2002, 01:38 PM	#5
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	] [ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]</p>

09-12-2002, 02:54 PM	#7
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]</p>

09-12-2002, 03:09 PM	#8
Blu Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: In this Universe Posts: 199	[ September 14, 2002: Message edited by: Blu ]</p>

09-12-2002, 04:12 PM	#10
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Well, I see what you mean, Blu. It's just very hard to talk about such rarified abstractions. One of the fathers of quantum mechanics- perhaps Einstein himself- said something like "the real marvel of existence is that it makes any sense at all!" Not the exact quote, but close. This relationship between sense and universe, consciousness and reality, subject and object, observer and observed, has been investigated in many ways. I think that this search is the defining aspect of humanity. We have searched in many ways, for many millenia. I think that this search is the root of both religion and science. [ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Jobar ]</p>

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