Jamie_L

It seems, in many Christian circles, "good" is defined as doing as God desires, and "evil" is defined as doing against God's desires, or disobeying God.

Since the Christian God desires that we all believe, and commands such in many places in the Bible, by this definition, a non-believer is "evil".

Jamie

Mageth

Well, there is Matthew 12:30 (also see Luke 11:23)

As well as the following selection:

Mark 16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Luke 10:16: He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.

John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 8:24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Romans 1:18: For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

Romans 14:23: And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

2 Cor 6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

2 Thess 2:11-12: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

2 Thess 3:2: And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.

Titus 1:15: Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.

Hebrews 3:12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

1 John 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

Rev 21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Paine

Thanks for the scriptures Mageth, Maybe you can help me better understand them.


Mark 16:16: He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If I'm damned, does that mean im evil?


John 3:18: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Does being condemned make me evil?


John 3:36: He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
do only evil people feel gods wrath?



Romans 14:23: And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
does this mean if i dont have faith, then im sinning? Do sins = evil?

2 Cor 6:14: Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Light with darkness.....Good with evil? Unequally yoked......Does this ask believers not to associate with non-believers? Or to try not to get into situation where you may have to work and corporate with non-believers?

2 Thess 2:11-12: And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
If your damned, are you evil?


Titus 1:15: Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
Defiled by evil?

Hebrews 3:12: Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
this one correlates an evil heart with unbelief. I think this one gives the most proof so far

1 John 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
Non belief makes you an antichrist? Is an antichrist evil?

1 John 4:3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
This one seems to build on the last one about non believers being antichrist


Rev 21:8: But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Do only evil people go to the "lake which burneth with fire and brimstone"?

Mageth

I think it'd be hard to argue against the assertion that the bible considers unbelievers "evil".

Here's a few more scriptures:

Ephesians 4:17-24 (NIV) So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off the old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

Ephesians 2:1-3 (Phi) You were spiritually dead through your sins and failures, all the time you followed this world's ideas of living, and obeyed the evil ruler of the spiritual realm, who is indeed fully operative today in those who disobey God. We all lived like that in the past, and followed the desires and imaginings of our lower natures, being, in fact, under the wrath of God by nature, like everyone else.

Galatians 5:16 (NIV) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.

Paine

Emmm lets do Coldstone, they really do have have the best icecream.

Wait a minor god? I guess that means im picking up the tab. Typical

Tabula_rasa

If you ever see any Christian *ever* say that someone is evil for being an atheist, just refer them to Matt 7 . Especially, 22-23. Not that I believe any of that crap, myself.

Tabula_rasa

Paine

HEres the passage:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[24] Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

OK i really dont understand. In 23 who is talking? God?

Iniquity means: 1 : gross injustice : WICKEDNESS
2 : a wicked act or thing : SIN

Im confused now

Mageth

Originally posted by Paine
Mark 16:16: ...
If I'm damned, does that mean im evil?

I don't know why one would be damned if not considered evil by god.

John 3:18: ...
Does being condemned make me evil?

No, but if you're condemned, you're evil.

John 3:36: ...
do only evil people feel gods wrath?

Yes. The "rigthteous" (i.e. those who believe and act on the Gospel message) are promised that they won't feel god's wrath.

Romans 14:23: ...
does this mean if i dont have faith, then im sinning? Do sins = evil?

Well, I think this scripture is really referring to believers; if they do something "not of faith", it's sin to them. And by definition, if you don't have "faith", you're a sinner. And sins are evil by definition, as far as I know.

2 Cor 6:14: ...
Light with darkness.....Good with evil?

Pretty much. And righteousness with unrighteousness...good with evil as well.

Unequally yoked......Does this ask believers not to associate with non-believers? Or to try not to get into situation where you may have to work and corporate with non-believers?

In some situations, yes. I think "yoked" is typically given a stricter definition than "associate", "work", or "cooperate"; it's often interpreted to mean a believer shouldn't marry an unbeliever, for example.

2 Thess 2:11-12: ...
If your damned, are you evil?

If you're evil, you're damned. Taking pleasure in unrighteousness is "evil".

Titus 1:15: ...
Defiled by evil?

Defiled is evil, but you could also say defiled by evil, I think.

Hebrews 3:12:
this one correlates an evil heart with unbelief. I think this one gives the most proof so far

Yes, but there's a definite overall theme here.

1 John 2:22:
Non belief makes you an antichrist? Is an antichrist evil?

Yes. Not of god = against christ = antichrist = evil.

1 John 4:3:
This one seems to build on the last one about non believers being antichrist

Yes; in addition, being "in the flesh" and "not of God" are two different ways of saying "evil". What's from god is good; what's not from god is not good (not good = evil). A common theme throughout the bible. There's no grey area.

Rev 21:8:
Do only evil people go to the "lake which burneth with fire and brimstone"?

Along with evil "other things", yes. That's what the "good book" says, anyway.

Tabula_rasa

Nah, that's jeebus job: separating the chaff from the seed.

The point is, every one of these bible thumping eejits will be judged according to their own actions here. IOW, "you judge others to be evil, jeebus will judge you according to the same yardstick before you can pass into heaven" (wherever the hell that is)

Mageth

Paine:

OK i really dont understand. In 23 who is talking? God?

Iniquity means: 1 : gross injustice : WICKEDNESS
2 : a wicked act or thing : SIN

Yes, in Matt 7:23 that's Jesus talking (aka God Jr.)

My interpretation of those verses is that everyone who claims to call on the lord's name and/or to do work in His name is not necessarily considered a "friend" by God. God knows the heart; the works one does in his name don't count if one is not a "true believer" in your heart (and only God is a judge of that, for he judges the heart, not the works).

It boils down to those people (the ones described by Jesus) are not true believers, and are thus "unbelievers", and everything that applies to unbelievers as described above applies to them.

I think that's what Tabula_rasa was getting at; it's not the job of any Xian to judge a person's heart, that's god's job; so in reality no Xian should judge (as in condemn) others. A lesson seldom followed, and a position xians will often argue against, asserting god gives them permission, even requires them, to judge others in some situations; there's actually some scriptures to back that up.