Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oolon Colluphid · 03-14-2002, 03:49 AM

As the last thread on this drifted onto the British constitution, and as a can of worms seems to have been opened here...

BBC Radio 4’s Today programme this morning left me apoplectic: some vicar (or similar) of the area where the school is came on and tried his best (all praise to presenter James Naughtie) to sneak in, in a few moments, a large chunk of cretinist propaganda: talking about Darwin, like nobody’s found out anything since; implying Darwin’s work was philosophy; trying to bring in racism; the ‘many scientists (mentioning palaeontologists) now don’t believe it’ gambit (what’s the betting he’s read edited Gould?), and so on.

Then came sanity: the remarkably calm and forthright Media Stalwart (ie it’s about evolution and religion, get him in) Richard Dawkins.

The bit of the programme is available here:

<a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listen/listen.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listen/listen.shtml</a>
(about halfway down on the left)

And here is the BBC News item: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/education/newsid_1872000/1872331.stm" target="_blank"> School attacked over 'evolution' teaching</a>. Don't miss the links on the right too.

Quote:

[Dawkins] told Today: "These children are being taught ludicrous falsehoods.

"This is not a matter of one scientific position against another scientific position.

"There is no scientific position which states that the earth is a few thousand years old.

"Any bishop would say the same."

Normal thinking people aren’t safe anywhere. This is truly one bit of American popular culture you can bloody well keep.

Oolon

Kevin Dorner · 03-14-2002, 03:58 AM

Answers In Genesis can be blamed for this. They are currently focusing on Britain because there isn't constitutional protection against creationism sneaking into public schools there. So far, luckily, Canada has been spared (population too low to matter I guess...)

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=149" target="_blank">Ken Ham is speaking at Leicester University today!</a>

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=150" target="_blank">And there's a whole creationist conference there on Saturday!</a>

Go give him a piece of your mind!

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]

Automaton · 03-14-2002, 04:11 AM

Won't someone please go there and tell them where to stick their fucking bullshit? In my experience brits are a lot more sensible than yanks, and won't take to kindly to being lied to.

hezekiah jones · 03-14-2002, 04:35 AM

But Ken Ham and "Dr. Safari" are Australians!

Kevin Dorner · 03-14-2002, 04:38 AM

Answers In Genesis wasn't founded until after Ken Ham emigrated to the U.S. He's a U.S. citizen as far as I know.

Oolon Colluphid · 03-14-2002, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Dorner:
Answers In Genesis can be blamed for this. They are currently focusing on Britain because there isn't constitutional protection against creationism sneaking into public schools there. So far, luckily, Canada has been spared (population too low to matter I guess...)

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=149" target="_blank">Ken Ham is speaking at Leicester University today!</a>

<a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=150" target="_blank">And there's a whole creationist conference there on Saturday!</a>

Go give him a piece of your mind!

Holy SHIT Kevin!

It's a 300 mile round trip, but I'll see if my wife will let me!

I find it incredible that a supposedly decent university would allow this onto their campus. We don't seem to have the plethora of universities you US folks seem to have, and pretty well all of ours are highly respectable (I get the impression -- it's only an impression, so correct me if I'm wrong -- that in the US there are al manner and grade of degree-awarding bodies...?) Our proper universities -- as opposed to the host of polytechnics, former-polies-now-unis, etc -- are or were fairly prestigious institutions.

[Edited to add: the University of Leicester's homepage proudly proclaims that the Financial Times and Sunday Times rate it in the top 20 in the country.]

I feel a stern letter coming on...

Oolon the utterly dismayed

[ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Oolon Colluphid ]

John Solum · 03-14-2002, 04:45 AM

I spent a year in England from 95-96 in Sunderland, and just before I got there, Ken Ham gave a talk at a local church (A couple of my friends went to the church, and I remember that they were pretty fired up for YEC for a while, until the took the time to look into Ham's claims). The impression I get from the very limited data that I have is that Ham's been laying the groundwork for a creationist movement in the UK for a while now, and now he's trying to get it up an running. Enjoy.

John

Kevin Dorner · 03-14-2002, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Oolon Colluphid:
It's a 300 mile round trip, but I'll see if my wife will let me!

Aw man... not geographically opportune. But hey, you might be in good company. I doubt that acadamic people in the homeland of Charles Darwin are going to take this little foreign incursion lying down. Well, I hope not.

Should you go, best of luck and please let us know all the details!

Per Ahlberg · 03-14-2002, 05:14 AM

Nasty business! The key phrase in the BBC's news report is that Emmanuel College is a "City Technology College": these are a special category of state-funded schools that do not have to follow the National Curriculum - and are therefore potentially vulnerable to this kind of ideological subversion. Thankfully, "normal" state schools (the overwhelming majority) are bound by the National Curriculum, which contains a healthy dose of evolution.

I have alerted the Director of the museum to this story, in case he might feel inclined to make some kind of official statement. You never know...

Per

Vorkosigan · 03-14-2002, 05:19 AM

Hey Per! Hope you hang around here. Looks like you'll fit right in.

Let's see, you guys give us Shakespeare and Anglo-Saxon law, we give you McDonald's and Creationism. Doesn't seem fair somehow.....

Michael

03-14-2002, 03:58 AM	#2
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Answers In Genesis can be blamed for this. They are currently focusing on Britain because there isn't constitutional protection against creationism sneaking into public schools there. So far, luckily, Canada has been spared (population too low to matter I guess...) <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=149" target="_blank">Ken Ham is speaking at Leicester University today!</a> <a href="http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.asp?Event_ID=150" target="_blank">And there's a whole creationist conference there on Saturday!</a> Go give him a piece of your mind! [ March 14, 2002: Message edited by: Kevin Dorner ]</p>

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03-14-2002, 04:11 AM	#3
Automaton Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 717	Won't someone please go there and tell them where to stick their fucking bullshit? In my experience brits are a lot more sensible than yanks, and won't take to kindly to being lied to.

03-14-2002, 04:35 AM	#4
hezekiah jones Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: WI Posts: 4,357	But Ken Ham and "Dr. Safari" are Australians!

03-14-2002, 04:38 AM	#5
Kevin Dorner Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 762	Answers In Genesis wasn't founded until after Ken Ham emigrated to the U.S. He's a U.S. citizen as far as I know.

03-14-2002, 04:45 AM	#7
John Solum Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 139	I spent a year in England from 95-96 in Sunderland, and just before I got there, Ken Ham gave a talk at a local church (A couple of my friends went to the church, and I remember that they were pretty fired up for YEC for a while, until the took the time to look into Ham's claims). The impression I get from the very limited data that I have is that Ham's been laying the groundwork for a creationist movement in the UK for a while now, and now he's trying to get it up an running. Enjoy. John

03-14-2002, 05:14 AM	#9
Per Ahlberg Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 582	Nasty business! The key phrase in the BBC's news report is that Emmanuel College is a "City Technology College": these are a special category of state-funded schools that do not have to follow the National Curriculum - and are therefore potentially vulnerable to this kind of ideological subversion. Thankfully, "normal" state schools (the overwhelming majority) are bound by the National Curriculum, which contains a healthy dose of evolution. I have alerted the Director of the museum to this story, in case he might feel inclined to make some kind of official statement. You never know... Per

03-14-2002, 05:19 AM	#10
Vorkosigan Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barrayar Posts: 11,866	Hey Per! Hope you hang around here. Looks like you'll fit right in. Let's see, you guys give us Shakespeare and Anglo-Saxon law, we give you McDonald's and Creationism. Doesn't seem fair somehow..... Michael

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