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Old 06-09-2003, 01:28 AM   #11
dk
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Default Re: Re: Abstinence sex ed programs and morality

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Originally posted by RevDahlia
Ayup. Also teenagers, especially girls, are reaching sexual maturity younger and younger. 100 years ago the average age of first menses was 16. Now I believe it's 12, and girls who first menstruate at 8 or 9 are becoming more common. Even putting aside the social issue, there's the biological one -- that never before in human history have fertile people been expected to wait so long for sex.

I'm not saying that 12-year-olds should have sex, but demanding that sexually mature people wait 20 years to have sex seems unrealistic.

(edited to fix tortured grammar)
Why do you think girls muture faster now?
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Old 06-09-2003, 01:43 AM   #12
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Default Re: Re: Re: Abstinence sex ed programs and morality

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Originally posted by dk
Why do you think girls muture faster now?
Actually they don't in general when comparing like for like but in todays western societies nutrition is higher so the physical onset appears to be younger.

When you take a look at the late Victorian abortion trade in London you find that prostitutes of 12 & 13 getting abortions was quite common.

Going back even further to Roman times 12 to 13 was considered the time at which girls became women and had to start taking precautions against the possibility of becoming pregnant.

Amen-Moses
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Old 06-09-2003, 10:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Re: Re: Abstinence sex ed programs and morality

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Originally posted by dk
Why do you think girls muture [sic] faster now?
Keep in mind that I am talking about physical, not emotional, maturity, marked by the onset of menstruation. As Amen-Moses points out, this has fluctuated somewhat throughout history.

From what I understand, a sedentary lifestyle and abundant food contribute to a girl menstruating at a younger age.

(Edited to add: Did some digging around and discovered that the age of menarche rose considerably in the 19th century, then dropped again in the 20th. This doesn't mean there couldn't have been 12-year-old Victorian prostitutes getting pregnant, of course, as there's always quite a range involved.)
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Old 06-09-2003, 11:52 AM   #14
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I think I agree with the general premise of this post. There is no logical or moral arguements for no sex till marriage, and is based mostly on parents not wanting to think of their kids doing that and reliegious beleifs.
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Old 06-10-2003, 12:27 PM   #15
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I think that it is morally wrong to force your beliefs on someone who hasn't the knowledge or maturity to choose what they believe for their self.

To me, this includes an 'abstinence is the best policy' program.

I believe that it is necessary to teach children the facts only and not try and cloud their judgement with what we think is right for them.
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Old 06-10-2003, 07:40 PM   #16
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Default Abstinence, again??

A couple years back, I was interested in genealogy research. I read (and can't find the reference now....drat!) that 25% of all pregnancies in colonial America were out-of-wedlock. (Imagine! In Boston!!)

The age of consent was 14. I'm not sure when that changed, but I think it was that way until the late 1700's in most colonies. My research showed many "marriages" between late-teen boys and twelve-year-old girls..and men in their 30's and 12 yr. olds, too.

A male was forced to marry his pregnant partner or face imprisonment, so not many babies were born out of wedlock. And, rape was punishable by death in many places.

Seems to me the sex part hasn't changed much, just our social attitude about who is old enough to have it, either in marriage or outside marriage. (Why else would colony laws specifically address the "age of consent" issue??)

Teaching abstinence only has apparently NEVER worked, nor will it ever work. We must be realistic. Oh, I forgot...its all tied to religion...so "realistic" probably isn't realistic!
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