Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Darth Dane · 05-13-2003, 11:02 AM

There is only one Reality.

No matter if there is a God or God's, if there are other universes(the multiverse idea), if there is only the universe or not, no matter which description or explanation or solution that is true, then there is only One Reality.

If there is only One Reality, there is only One answer that is the Truth of this Reality.

If Reality is within everything that Is, because they are part of Reality, then we can find the answer within our selves.

The answer that comes from within must supercede the answer that comes from without. Only you decide ultimately what is true to you.

The answer encompasses both that which is within and without, as the Reality is present both inside and outside of everything that Is

How do you like this theory?

DD - Love Spliff

Tom Sawyer · 05-13-2003, 01:22 PM

There's a bit of a contradiction in that theory.

While I agree that there is only one actual reality out there, I disagree that looking inwards is the way to find out what that is. You say that there is only one reality, but then go on to say that people should find out what is true to them, rather than what the external world shows to be true. This process comes up with a different "real" world for each person, rather than the one real world that you talk about at the beginning of your post.

Taking information from without is the only way that we can gain any kind of actual understanding of what is actually out there. While there is a lot of false information coming in and each of us must personally decide what we think is true, the answers that we come up with may or may not having any correlation with what actually exists. If we reject a theory that accurately explains the real world, it doesn't make it any less real and if we accept a theory that is actually wrong, it doesn't make it any truer.

What we decide is how we view the world, not how the world actually is. We hope that what we decide to accept as true is an accurate reflection of reality, but the fact that we accept it does not in any way make it so.

Darth Dane · 05-13-2003, 02:24 PM

There's a bit of a contradiction in that theory. Lets look at it

While I agree that there is only one actual reality out there, I disagree that looking inwards is the way to find out what that is. You say that there is only one reality, but then go on to say that people should find out what is true to them, rather than what the external world shows to be true. This process comes up with a different "real" world for each person, rather than the one real world that you talk about at the beginning of your post.

I disagree. The Is-ness that everything shares is the same, so by finding your own Is-ness is the exact same as everything elses Is-ness. The fastest way can we conclude is stop physical motion and seek inwards. Is it faster to go to Mecca, than inside yourself? If Muhammed won't come to the mountain, the Mountain will come to Muhammed". Use the conciousness if you want to understand yourself. It is your guiding Light as it lights up what you focus on.

Taking information from without is the only way that we can gain any kind of actual understanding of what is actually out there.

Yes, if we want to understand what is out there, but if we wanna understand the Is-ness of what is out here juts look in. If we wanna be pratical and create homes and toys and so on, go ahead, but would you wanna hurt that which shares the same Is-ness as you, in essense part of You.

Of course I can't really say if it is true, but I like the theory.

While there is a lot of false information coming in and each of us must personally decide what we think is true, the answers that we come up with may or may not having any correlation with what actually exists. If we reject a theory that accurately explains the real world, it doesn't make it any less real and if we accept a theory that is actually wrong, it doesn't make it any truer.

Yes, maybe this was why Buddha said that the world is an Illusion, we can't really see what is what.
The Buddha took his diciples to a forest. At the edge he stops and picks up a handfull of leaves. The Buddha then asks teh diciples: "Is there more leaves in my hand or in teh forest?" The diciples wondered if this was a trick question, but proceeded to say that "There are more leaves in teh forest". The BUddha smiles and says "Yes, the leaves in my hand is my teachings, the leaves in teh forest is my knowledge"

As I see it, there are two possible teachings.

1) If you follow the Buddha's teachings you may/will(I'm not sure) Reach enlightenment

2) The leaves in his hands are basicly the same as all the other leaves, they look slightly different but htey are all Leaves. The teaching the Buddha taught was the methodology of how to understand the forest. The infinite forest?

What we decide is how we view the world, not how the world actually is. We hope that what we decide to accept as true is an accurate reflection of reality, but the fact that we accept it does not in any way make it so.

Life can be so Illusionary eh?

DD - Love Spliff

Darth Dane · 05-13-2003, 03:53 PM

It's kinda like everything that Is or exist share the essense of being, or the "I Am" feeling. This essense permeates everything out into whatever you can possibly imagine. If you imagine pink unicorns, they share they Is-ness with you, mainly, of course, because you created the unicorns in your Mind.

Everything "outside" your Mind, also share this Is-ness with you, this Is-ness is what humans can perceive about themselves and the outside, but interestingly enough, the "Real" world also happens in your Mind, you perceive and are aware of the world in your Mind or conciousness.

DD - Love Spliff

AdamWho · 05-13-2003, 10:31 PM

While I agree there is one reality (no caps). Truth is another issue altogether. Truth (capital T) is subjective, truth (small t) is just tautologies. I don't think truth in either truth has anything to do with reality.

Darth Dane · 05-14-2003, 01:25 AM

I don't think truth in either truth has anything to do with reality.

No but the truth cannot be written down and said, it has to be experienced by each individual.

See my idea?

DD - Love Spliff

Tom Sawyer · 05-14-2003, 08:02 AM

DD,

Quote:

I disagree. The Is-ness that everything shares is the same, so by finding your own Is-ness is the exact same as everything elses Is-ness. The fastest way can we conclude is stop physical motion and seek inwards. Is it faster to go to Mecca, than inside yourself? If Muhammed won't come to the mountain, the Mountain will come to Muhammed". Use the conciousness if you want to understand yourself. It is your guiding Light as it lights up what you focus on.

I agree that we all share the same "Is-ness", meaning that we are all part of the same reality. However, our perceptions of what this reality is may or may not have any relation to what actually exists. One person may look inside himself and find exidence of a loving, Christian God. Another may find Buddha and the harmony with the world that karma creates. Another may find a universe without any divine influences at all.

The fact that the conclusions about external reality that a person reaches through internal searching can be drastically different shows that it is not an accurate way, in and of itself, to come up with an accurate view of reality. It's also not the case that some of the people are just doing it wrong, either. The only way to gain an accurate understanding of external reality is look outwards and test that external reality, rather than look inwards and decide what "feels" right to us.

If I have misunderstood what you mean by "Is-ness", please let me know.

Darth Dane · 05-14-2003, 03:20 PM

I agree that we all share the same "Is-ness", meaning that we are all part of the same reality. However, our perceptions of what this reality is may or may not have any relation to what actually exists.

True, our perception may not be in harmony with what actually Is.

The fact that the conclusions about external reality that a person reaches through internal searching can be drastically different shows that it is not an accurate way, in and of itself, to come up with an accurate view of reality.

Yes and no. Accurate view denotes perception, if perception can be un-harmonious, we cannot put the view down in words or speech. Words and speech again denotes perception. Any word, like: Red, is perceiving red as different to blue. Other wise we can't see what red is, if there was only red we would not know it, only by something it is not, can we see it.

The only way to gain an accurate understanding of external reality is look outwards and test that external reality, rather than look inwards and decide what "feels" right to us.

Yes, if we wanna understand what is outside of you, the mechanics and construct of Reality. If you wanna know what Reality Is, then the Reality that is inside you, is also inside the tree or gravity or the sun or stars or God's if there are any. So by understanding that the things you can understand Is, you will understand Reality in and of itself. Not the substructure only, with star systems and so on.

If I have misunderstood what you mean by "Is-ness", please let me know.

I dunno, you tell me.

DD - Love Spliff

AdamWho · 05-14-2003, 04:13 PM

Darth Dane

Could you distinguish between the different meanings of truth.

Quote:

truth cannot be written down

If you mean truth (no-cap), you are incorrect, X=X, is an example.

If you mean Truth (cap), you are still incorrect, for example "I love my mother" is an example of a Truth. It cannot be proven logically, it just is True.

If you mean some "cosmic truth" then you will have to define what you are talking about before any meaningful conversation can take place.

Either way, truthis a completely seperate issue than if one reality exists.

Keith Russell · 05-14-2003, 06:35 PM

A is A. The fact that a lampshade and I both exist, does not invalidate our individual identity; I am not the lampshade, and vice versa. To be is to be something, but everything that is has its own, individual identity.

K

05-13-2003, 11:02 AM	#1
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	One Reality? There is only one Reality. No matter if there is a God or God's, if there are other universes(the multiverse idea), if there is only the universe or not, no matter which description or explanation or solution that is true, then there is only One Reality. If there is only One Reality, there is only One answer that is the Truth of this Reality. If Reality is within everything that Is, because they are part of Reality, then we can find the answer within our selves. The answer that comes from within must supercede the answer that comes from without. Only you decide ultimately what is true to you. The answer encompasses both that which is within and without, as the Reality is present both inside and outside of everything that Is How do you like this theory? DD - Love Spliff

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05-13-2003, 01:22 PM	#2
Tom Sawyer Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Toronto, eh Posts: 42,293	There's a bit of a contradiction in that theory. While I agree that there is only one actual reality out there, I disagree that looking inwards is the way to find out what that is. You say that there is only one reality, but then go on to say that people should find out what is true to them, rather than what the external world shows to be true. This process comes up with a different "real" world for each person, rather than the one real world that you talk about at the beginning of your post. Taking information from without is the only way that we can gain any kind of actual understanding of what is actually out there. While there is a lot of false information coming in and each of us must personally decide what we think is true, the answers that we come up with may or may not having any correlation with what actually exists. If we reject a theory that accurately explains the real world, it doesn't make it any less real and if we accept a theory that is actually wrong, it doesn't make it any truer. What we decide is how we view the world, not how the world actually is. We hope that what we decide to accept as true is an accurate reflection of reality, but the fact that we accept it does not in any way make it so.

05-13-2003, 02:24 PM	#3
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	There's a bit of a contradiction in that theory. Lets look at it While I agree that there is only one actual reality out there, I disagree that looking inwards is the way to find out what that is. You say that there is only one reality, but then go on to say that people should find out what is true to them, rather than what the external world shows to be true. This process comes up with a different "real" world for each person, rather than the one real world that you talk about at the beginning of your post. I disagree. The Is-ness that everything shares is the same, so by finding your own Is-ness is the exact same as everything elses Is-ness. The fastest way can we conclude is stop physical motion and seek inwards. Is it faster to go to Mecca, than inside yourself? If Muhammed won't come to the mountain, the Mountain will come to Muhammed". Use the conciousness if you want to understand yourself. It is your guiding Light as it lights up what you focus on. Taking information from without is the only way that we can gain any kind of actual understanding of what is actually out there. Yes, if we want to understand what is out there, but if we wanna understand the Is-ness of what is out here juts look in. If we wanna be pratical and create homes and toys and so on, go ahead, but would you wanna hurt that which shares the same Is-ness as you, in essense part of You. Of course I can't really say if it is true, but I like the theory. While there is a lot of false information coming in and each of us must personally decide what we think is true, the answers that we come up with may or may not having any correlation with what actually exists. If we reject a theory that accurately explains the real world, it doesn't make it any less real and if we accept a theory that is actually wrong, it doesn't make it any truer. Yes, maybe this was why Buddha said that the world is an Illusion, we can't really see what is what. The Buddha took his diciples to a forest. At the edge he stops and picks up a handfull of leaves. The Buddha then asks teh diciples: "Is there more leaves in my hand or in teh forest?" The diciples wondered if this was a trick question, but proceeded to say that "There are more leaves in teh forest". The BUddha smiles and says "Yes, the leaves in my hand is my teachings, the leaves in teh forest is my knowledge" As I see it, there are two possible teachings. 1) If you follow the Buddha's teachings you may/will(I'm not sure) Reach enlightenment 2) The leaves in his hands are basicly the same as all the other leaves, they look slightly different but htey are all Leaves. The teaching the Buddha taught was the methodology of how to understand the forest. The infinite forest? What we decide is how we view the world, not how the world actually is. We hope that what we decide to accept as true is an accurate reflection of reality, but the fact that we accept it does not in any way make it so. Life can be so Illusionary eh? DD - Love Spliff

05-13-2003, 03:53 PM	#4
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	It's kinda like everything that Is or exist share the essense of being, or the "I Am" feeling. This essense permeates everything out into whatever you can possibly imagine. If you imagine pink unicorns, they share they Is-ness with you, mainly, of course, because you created the unicorns in your Mind. Everything "outside" your Mind, also share this Is-ness with you, this Is-ness is what humans can perceive about themselves and the outside, but interestingly enough, the "Real" world also happens in your Mind, you perceive and are aware of the world in your Mind or conciousness. DD - Love Spliff

05-13-2003, 10:31 PM	#5
AdamWho Contributor Join Date: May 2001 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 13,389	While I agree there is one reality (no caps). Truth is another issue altogether. Truth (capital T) is subjective, truth (small t) is just tautologies. I don't think truth in either truth has anything to do with reality.

05-14-2003, 01:25 AM	#6
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	I don't think truth in either truth has anything to do with reality. No but the truth cannot be written down and said, it has to be experienced by each individual. See my idea? DD - Love Spliff

05-14-2003, 03:20 PM	#8
Darth Dane Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Required Posts: 2,349	I agree that we all share the same "Is-ness", meaning that we are all part of the same reality. However, our perceptions of what this reality is may or may not have any relation to what actually exists. True, our perception may not be in harmony with what actually Is. The fact that the conclusions about external reality that a person reaches through internal searching can be drastically different shows that it is not an accurate way, in and of itself, to come up with an accurate view of reality. Yes and no. Accurate view denotes perception, if perception can be un-harmonious, we cannot put the view down in words or speech. Words and speech again denotes perception. Any word, like: Red, is perceiving red as different to blue. Other wise we can't see what red is, if there was only red we would not know it, only by something it is not, can we see it. The only way to gain an accurate understanding of external reality is look outwards and test that external reality, rather than look inwards and decide what "feels" right to us. Yes, if we wanna understand what is outside of you, the mechanics and construct of Reality. If you wanna know what Reality Is, then the Reality that is inside you, is also inside the tree or gravity or the sun or stars or God's if there are any. So by understanding that the things you can understand Is, you will understand Reality in and of itself. Not the substructure only, with star systems and so on. If I have misunderstood what you mean by "Is-ness", please let me know. I dunno, you tell me. DD - Love Spliff

05-14-2003, 06:35 PM	#10
Keith Russell Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Overland Park, Kansas Posts: 1,336	A is A. The fact that a lampshade and I both exist, does not invalidate our individual identity; I am not the lampshade, and vice versa. To be is to be something, but everything that is has its own, individual identity. K

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