brighid

Darren,

Thank you for the clarification! Change can be very scary for most people and I can certainly understand how that is. I am very thankful her recent actions aren’t indicative of a regular course of action within your family. That is very good indeed. But I hope both of you can use this experience to grow and realize that, at least for your wife, there are some very deeply seeded feelings that seem to not only cloud her judgment but have react in very harmful ways. This really needs to be addressed, not only for her sake but for the future changes that will come about through any lifetime. It’s just not healthy to have to go through MONTHS of turmoil over any issue of change, especially one that was made worse by her false impressions, over reactions and other histrionics. I hope that the both of you can still agree to get counseling because this isn’t a symptom of an isolated incident, but of something deeper that is in serious need of healing.

I know how she feels and I know what it’s like to have grown up in a household like that. Thankfully my father has gotten sober, gotten a lot of counseling and really is a different man then the one I grew up with. I still struggle with self-esteem issues now and again, and it took a lot of personal work to overcome some of my rather poor behaviors and reactions.

My sister and mother are unable to forgive my father and they hold onto the anger and hatred like a starving dog holds onto a bone. It interferes and harms all of their intimate relationships. They don’t understand how I can forgive him. One of the reasons I chose to forgive is because what is done is done. There is no amount of crying, rehashing or a grudge deep enough to change my past, or the collective past of my family. Another reason is because hatred binds you to the person(s) who victimized you and you willing allow them to hurt you over and over again by holding onto the pain. That is not to say that a different times in your life you won’t relive those moments, or suddenly have a flash of that pain but to consciously withhold forgiveness is to willingly allow your abuser power over you. That doesn’t mean what they did wasn’t horribly wrong. It doesn’t mean you accept what happened to you as being ok, but what you do is to move beyond that because it cannot be changed. It also doesn’t mean you ever have a relationship with that person, or even have the ability to be in the same room. It simply means you don’t give them any more power and you remove yourself from the cycle of abuse. It is also a good example to set for your children. Not only that but it frees up all that emotional energy to be diverted to some other aspect of your life that needs and, or deserves that precious energy … such as yourself, your marriage, your children …

Forgiveness is not just about allowing a past hurt to be healed, or removed from the record. It’s more about healing oneself. I think too many people think forgiveness is about absolving someone of their responsibility for their actions, instead of realizing it’s about doing the right thing for oneself. Forgiveness releases your from the bondage our abusers forcibly impose upon us, often times when we could not defend ourselves.

I have been abused in some pretty horrific ways and if you search around this site you will find some of the vivid details. This place has been cathartic in many ways. I too cannot understand how any parent can harm their child, but I have also tried to learn about my parent’s childhoods and how those abuses and horrors molded their thoughts, abilities and reactions. It helps to understand so I don’t make the same mistakes they did.

It is time to heal this rift, but please don’t ignore the root causes of it or else these sorts of episodes are bound to repeat themselves. Your marriage can become stronger because of it. Your wife can come a bit closer to wholeness by addressing the reasons (not just change) she reacted so violently. Your children can grow and learn ways to properly deal with change, anger and disappointment. Do not allow all this hell to be for naught.

I hope this storm has truly passed and this is not simply the calm before a more intense rampage.

Hopefully there will be a lot of holding, snuggling, kissing, hugging, forgiving and problem addressing in your household so it can return to the sanctuary it should always be.

Brighid

Proxima Centauri

It is good to see that the situation is getting a bit better. The Unitarians could give your wife the security, sense of belonging and will to live she seems to need. As to the children, perhaps they'll later go to the Unitarians and benefit from their activities, perhaps they'll grow up religion free.
Unfortunately, you need to see a lawyer as a precaution. You need to be prepared in case things get unexpectedly worse. You mentioned that you work at a University. Could you contact someone from the legal department there for suggestions as to a good firm of lawyers?

seebs

According to my UU friend, be prepared to "shop around" a bit - there's substantial differences between congregations. One of the congregations near him is so vehemently anti-theist that he feels very uncomfortable there, and goes to a different (and further) congregation, even though he's an atheist/agnostic himself.

I am very glad that things are improving with your wife. I think everything fits a bit better, knowing she has a problem with change.

In a way, I think the guitar thing may have been very helpful for her - now she's done something she's sure is wrong, so she knows that she's at least partially in error. I don't know if anyone will know what I mean by that, but I know people who are like that; they have to really screw up before they can admit that they were already wrong.

Ted Hoffman

Phew! I am glad for you Vicar.

Why do marriages and relationships have to be so tough?

No, dont answer. I know: timeless question.:banghead:

agapeo

And I can't tell ya how glad I am that you and your wife have been able to work out a compromise that may be beneficial to all (including your children).

I don't wish to be negative about this, but hopefully you realize that there are always possibilities of future flareups. You're managing to work through (to a degree) the lastest. Perhaps when you get through it and find yourself in another one you will remember this time.

I wish you the best.

wildernesse

I'm glad to hear that you and your wife have talked more and have decided on an option (UU church) that both of you are willing to try. That's wonderful!!

Please do consider counseling though--especially talking to your wife about dealing with her past and how she deals with problems today. Talking to a third party can be so helpful. I hope that both of you have a calm and peaceful week.

--tibac

southernhybrid

This news does seem optimistic. Since sharing more of your wife's past with us, it's clear that she has many underlying emotional issues that she needs to confront. Hopefully she can work those issues through and the two of you can experience some healing.

jj

This thing is eating you up.

Now, yes, trying to resolve it is in, my book, the best solution.

Especially since there are kids involved, and kids who really don't need to have a mom who drags them off into extremist religion, which I would personally fear given the discussions here, there is a lot to be concerned about regarding the kids.

BUT

Your own survival is also desirable.

Just remember. You can't take care of anyone else if you're broken in half yourself.

Please. Remember that. If it comes to personal survival, opt for that. (Note to folks, I don't necessarily mean death here, please.)

Bumble Bee Tuna

well, I think it's great that you have patched things up, to an extent, but don't let that make you put your guard down. Reading this thread, something just keeps coming up in my mind...

Why the fuck are you having theological debates with your wife? Every single time you do so, it pisses you both off. Every single time. (I assume)

Why do you do something that you know will not help your situation whatsoever and will in actuality make it much worse?

I have only one piece of advice for you. Do not EVER argue about anything religious with your wife again. Even if something comes up and it seems inevitable. Even if your wife tries to suck you into an argument. DO NOT ARGUE. It's not worth it. I think you need to establish a VERY clear rule with your wife that no such conversations will be tolerated. You will not say anything disparaging towards Christianity (yeah we know it's not towards her. Who cares? That's how it feels to her). She will not say anything disparaging towards atheism, or anything like "you need church" that says you should start believing. Your lack of beliefs will cease to be a topic of conversation. Never bring it up. If she brings it up, calmly remind her that you are not going to discuss things like this (this refusal will go a lot better if you do talk to her once and get an actual agreement not to talk about it from her). If she persists, remain calm and refuse.

I don't know if this will cure your problems or prevent divorce, but I am positive that it will help make things better. NOTHING good can come from arguing with your wife. Only if she begins to doubt her faith and actively asks you questions would it be acceptable.

OK I said that was my only piece of advice but my other piece of advice is to still prepare for the worst, try to get any sort of documentation of your wife's behavior that is possible. You want to be prepared for a divorce, because as someone aptly pointed out, you have two strikes against you: being male and being an atheist. You're at a big disadvantage and you need to make up for it by working hard. The tape recorder thing might not be a bad idea, but I really have no idea, as IANAL.

In the end I don't think enough emphasis could be placed on how serious this situation is and how necessary it is for you to take action. Don't let your wife one day actually follow through on her divorce threats and stand there sputtering about how unprepared you are. BE PREPARED.

Good luck, Darren. I admire your tenacity.

-B

agapeo

Greetings all!

In a PM exchange with a member of this Board I was asked the question of whether I thought a particular post I made in this thread was supportive to Vicar. I responded:
To which in return I was asked:
I consider this a good question. Still, even though I really don't know if any input I offer to Vicar (or anyone else for that matter) is supportive unless I'm told by that particular individual I would hope that it was.

It's satisfying to know that whenever you offer advice or suggestions to another (based on personal experience and/or knowledge) that such advice is supportive. It is equally true that one will never know for a certainty unless told.

So, seeing as how the question was raised, (and I consider it a valid point) I will no longer offer any suggestions in this venue. Not because I feel as though I lack the capacity to be supportive but because my support is not needed when so many of you are more than willing to offer it.

I wonder if I were an atheist if the PM exchange I had with the individual would have even taken place. I wonder this because I'm aware of the natural tendency to be suspicious of those who don't share our common beliefs or non-beliefs. No matter.

In any case, I have been following this thread with much interest simply because I feel that any marriage that was predicated on love will survive most onslaughts to that marriage if love is still an element within it. I consider that Vicar and his wife still loved each other but were overcome by their differences and were unable to see past them to continue the relationship. Afaik from my last reading of this topic they have been able to work things out to some degree. I consider that a good thing.

This will be my last post to this forum (and perhaps to this Board as well) but before I discontinued altogether I wished to say to Vicar – I don't know if my comments within this thread were supportive to you. I hope they were but that is not important in the long run. What is important IMO is that things work out for you as you wish them to. So I wish you the best.

Sincerely
Agapeo