Magus55

Says you. People quote from other historical books all the time, Bible is historically accurate. Therefore we can do whatever we want. Its your own opinion that we can't quote from the Bible, there is no law that says we can't, therefore its a weak argument. I say you can't quote from any historical book. Prove Louis the XIV existed.

Rhea

Uh, Magus, he said in order to prove it.

You can quote from the bible all you want, but it will never prove itself true.

THINK ABOUT THAT.

If you are claiming that it is a valid argument in your world for a document's assertion of it's own truth to make it true,

(think about this, now...)

Then you are saying that any book which proclaims itself to be true IS TRUE.

Because you have stipulated that the claim itself is proof.

(Are you sure you want to stipulate this? Sure?)

Spaz

God dammit magus, you can't use it to prove itself, you can use a history book to look at history, but you can't prove the history books merit by reading it. HUGE difference.

EDIT: Hey, Rhea beat me to it

Rhea

Magus55

I'm not trying to prove the Bible, i'm proving what the Bible has written in it about historical events. Have you ever met Louis the XIV? Have you ever seen the accomplishments he supposedly did? His life and events that took place involving him are only in a book. Same with Jesus, since we didn't exist 2000 years ago, we have to go by a historical book describing his life and what he did.

Rhea

Well, they are in more than one book. And no, they are not _only_ in a book. They are in a grave, a museum, paintings, memoirs, books by hundreds of authors,


you get my drift?

You've got ONE BOOK that is supposed to prove ITSELF true.


No history book attempts to prove itself true. History books gather evidence from elsewhere. The good ones have a list of references and pictures.

Sr. Zonules

Hey Magus55 and others - I have a book that gives me all the answers that I'll ever need to know!! It's so great and wonderful that I don't even have to think about tough issues like death, morality and rightousness; the answers for life are entirely within the scope of this prophetic writing!!! By following this book, (much like a treasure map) you can go to "Sto Vo Kor", a land of beauty, immortality and peace. However, if you do not read this document, you will be sent to "Grethor", a place of eternal tourment and pain.

I know that this book is entirely real and true, it says so right here (in the book of "Klingon Rip-offs" Chaper 314, Verse 15): "The one book [this book] IS true and shall be true for all time, and anyone who says it is true is a saint, and those who curse at the book and say it is not true will be considered an infidel."

I hope that everyone, especially Magus55, Rhea and Spaz, will enlighten them to read this book (found in all hotels nationwide), and save yourself from the pains of very strong ethnic people with terrible foreheads.



(Edited to add Magus' name)

Magus55

Jesus is in more books than any other person to exist in history. You can find him in any encyclopedia, millions and millions of books written by authors around the world. The people of the Bible are in graves, artifacts from Jesus' time are in museums, including the boat believed to be where Jesus appointed some of his apostles. We have original manuscripts ( Dead sea scrolls) of what the Apostles and others wrote down while watching and following Jesus. And we have paintings from people who saw Jesus. None of that is good enough for you, so Louis the XIV isn't good enough for me.

Whats your point?

Sr. Zonules

well, Magus55, it is not the mere existance of the man "Jesus" that athiests, historians and the like argue about. in fact, I do (with many historians) agree with you in that there is evidence that he actually existed. however, this does not mean that Jesus was the son of God, that God exists, or that contemporary christianity is the correct ("right") religion.

Just because of the fact of Louis XIV's existance, it cannot be determined that his views were right, or that he was even the correct heir to the throne.

Just because oranges exist, oranges aren't necessarily the best (or worst, etc...) fruit. I don't think they are the best. I particularly like peaches. And I don't believe that they are the best fruit because they exist, i think they are because I think they are.

(edited to correct bold tagging)

Sr. Zonules

What I'm really trying to get at is that existence is not an attribute.

(I have a saxophone for sale that is 2 years old, has perfect laquer, factory new pads, plays like a dream and exists. $1100 obo.) (really I do, and it is for sale!!)
(I also have a refurbished 1996 Dodge Viper GTS mid. blue with plat. stripes. leather, the works. new sound system. +custom wheels, and doesn't exist. $34,500 obo.) (I wish I had a viper. But I'd NEVER sell it.)



(edited because I can't spell worth carp.)