Corgan Sow

I've already mailed my rebuttals, but can any fellow Infidels help me to give a much more concrete argument?

He claims:

My claim that atheists uses science and secular philosophy as their "religion"

more:


and my claim that all religions will eventually be outdated like Aztec and Greek mythology.

Thanks for help!

Cutter

Hmm, I don't know why you'd even bother with someone who clearly has such contempt for atheism but anyhoo. (BTW, haven't figured out how to do quotes yet so I'll just C&P in italics, apologies in advance if it turns out badly! ).

YES, religion holds superior. BECAUSE despite of hundreds of people with hundreds of ways of thinking, it holds them together so they will each teach each other something about themselves, their opinions and the world around them.

Aren't Christians opposed to sex ed? Don't they claim to have a monopoly on 'the Truth'? Don't they believe in Genesis, the Noachian Flood, etc? That pretty much invalidates all three of those points.

Atheism will NEVER hold anyone together because they have NO purpose whatsoever to be together, they will drift apart by their own thoughts and ideas and worse still, damn others by using science in a misguided way - like our pal Einstein did with his help with construction of Atom Bombs.

If the first point is true, why does this website exist? The second point is complete bollocks. As if theists (including Christians) never invented weapons!

I must say that your point about science being the non-theist 'religion' was a blunder.

At least my way will bring results - reduction in population, better management of local resources and destruction of useless parasites which feeds from within the country without giving anything in return. WHAT will you and your Atheist principles will bring?

This sounds like bloody 1984 to me. Is he suggesting enforced population control? I'm as concerned with overpopulation as anyone but I don't see theism doing anything about it. Indeed with Christianity's (particularly RCC's) attitude to sex ed I'd say they're making the situation worse. And I'm sure he'd quickly change his tune on 'parasites' if he ever found himself on welfare/unemployment (I assume that's what he's referring too). Tell him our atheistic principles will bring compassion, since we (unlike him apparently) care about the well being of other people.

And your stupidity, misguided and blind principles shows why people like me is needed, to get rid of Parasites like you who contribute nothing other than hot air.

Tell him that Al-Qaeda are still recruiting. It's attitudes like this that saw those planes slam into the WTC and the Pentagon.

Greek mythology based on Deity, become outdated with coming of Christianity, Aztec become outdated because of bloodthristy nature in form of sacrifices etc and Egyptians because outdated with introduction of Christianity and Islam. Each had it's own fault for being outdated.

Aztecs became 'outdated' when they were slaughtered by the Christian Conquistadors. To strengthen you're argument that Christianity will eventually die out, you may want to point out that (according to Barna I think) the number of Christians (as a percentage of the global population) has remained static for the past few decades, and the numbers of RC's is actually shrinking (I found this out on religioustolerance.org). Besides, nothing lasts forever and change is part of human nature. What makes him think Christianity is so special that it's resistant to this?

I do not believe such religions as Hindusm and Buddhism will ever become outdated because it based on love, not tormenting the soul in hell and other fears which you Atheist seems to be so scared of.

Atheists don't believe in, much less are afraid of, hell. It's also nice how he's just implied that Christianity isn't based on love, isn't it?

bonduca

If that were really true, there would only be one church, rather than many churches, all fighting with each other over who is the "true" one.

What they usually teach appears to be: "I am the true church and the rest of you are going to hell."

Even if it DID bring people together in the way your friend claims, clinging to one another in pursuit of a lie is hardly an admirable thing.

Thoughts and ideas are apparently evil things that drive people apart.

Your friend seems to think that religion is the only force that binds people together, apparently forgetting all other common goals that humans share such as political beliefs, social issues, common interests, etc.

Truman, who issued the order to drop the bomb on Japan, was a theist. Need I say more?

No. Science as SCIENCE. Does your friend believe in the god of electricity?

Science changes because it is not afraid of discovering new information. Science by its very nature encourages testing of statements and constant searching for answers. This lends it an integrity that religion, which discourages questions of any kind, does not have. How long did it take the Catholic church to admit that Galileo was right?

Does your friend realize those things are made possible not by prayer, but by scientific research?

At best, it encourages one to search without fear for the truth. At the least, it allows us all to sleep in on the weekend.

God is love.

Cutter has already addressed this nicely, so I will only suggest that you find your pal some history books, as his/her ignorance is startling.


All religions claim to be based on love, though all religions seem to have their dark side, and practioners who behave shamefully in the name of their beliefs. So what has that to do with anything? Love can be felt and put into practice without worshipping a god or goddess who DOES NOT EXIST.

????

Does your friend actually understand the nature of atheism? No God = No Hell. No devil in red tights, no pitchfork, no weenie roast.

This debate over the "usefulness" atheism is really absurd. The debate should be about religion. Can your friend prove the existence of a god? If not, wasting a finite lifespan in the service of something that does not exist...now THAT is useless.

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[ October 05, 2002: Message edited by: bonduca ]</p>

Eudaimonist

YES, religion holds superior. BECAUSE despite of hundreds of people with hundreds of ways of thinking, it holds them together so they will each teach each other something about themselves, their opinions and the world around them.

Granted: there are plenty of atheists who don't consider themselves part of a specific atheistic community.

But note: This applies to many theists, including Christians, as well. A significant number of Christians are "unchurched".

This isn't a black and white difference.

Also note: There are atheists who form groups with philosophical views in common. Just a few examples: Fellowship of Reason, Church of Freethought, Council for Secular Humanism.

Atheism will NEVER hold anyone together because they have NO purpose whatsoever to be together

Do you mean like how some Christian churches consider themselves to be the "true Christians" and other denominations to be paths to damnation? Holding together like that?

Atheist political activist groups hold together for political activism. That is just one way in which atheist groups may hold together.

Atheistic organizations and communities may hold together for purposes in which atheism is merely implicit. Atheistic groups with an ethical purpose (Objectivists, Eudaimonists, Secular Humanists, etc) have reasons to associate with each other.

they will drift apart by their own thoughts and ideas

Unlike all Christian groups, who agree with each other on absolutely everything.

damn others by using science in a misguided way - like our pal Einstein did with his help with construction of Atom Bombs.

There were no Christians involved in the creation and deployment of the atomic bomb?

Science as religion? That's like trying to make a road over a shifting sand, Boy.

Perhaps so, Baby. But if the road shifts as well, then it would be a growing, developing way of life, which is healthy.

At least my way will bring results - reduction in population, better management of local resources and destruction of useless parasites which feeds from within the country without giving anything in return. WHAT will you and your Atheist principles will bring?

Uh... an end to Social Darwinism?

And your stupidity, misguided and blind principles shows why people like me is needed, to get rid of Parasites like you who contribute nothing other than hot air.

Ah, that famed Christian agape...


Don't waste your time with this misanthrope.

DMB

Even if it were true that religion brought people together, which it demonstrably isn't, given the huge numbers of opposing religions/sects, what is the value of a community based on a lie?

Jayhawker Soule

This seems incontrovertable. I would not even attempt a rebuttal. The question is: So?

free12thinker

Interesting way of thinking. Hundreds who don't agree on a topic as deep-rooted as religion, yet they are still held together? I've had a christian tell me something similiar. They noted that "while we may not all agree on just which god is right or on which biblical lines mean what exactly, at least we are all bound to a god of some sort."

My only reply was, atheists are bound to no god, true, but that's only because we cannot be bound to that which we cannot see, and if the rest of the world cannot see us from this point of view, than they are looking at nothing but their own dreams. Christianity, Islam, and the rest of them are all determined that atheism is bad, and that atheism will lead us nowhere, not realizing that the one place it always certainly leads us is into our own free will and our own ideas of life. Christianity and the rest, however, come with no such thing. They are trained to believe god and in this, their life leads them no where they can call their own. They're robots, fighting for a cause that will have them hating homosexuality, degrading women, worshiping thin air, and thanking god (or whoever) for things that they did for themselves. But whatever right?

Corgan Sow

Uh, the prob is...this person is a Hindu. He's not your typical Xtian fundy, that is why i need help.

Debbie T

Extermination? This sentence gave me the chills.

PandaJoe

An idiot is always an idiot first, regardless of his religion. The way I see it, using our fancy "logic" and "reason" won't work against someone so incredibly ignorant. I'll give you 3 options.
1- Tell him to actually take the time to learn about religions, starting with athiesm and his own god damn religion. Some people seem to forget so easily that the whole "Don't be a dick to anyone" aplies to people of other religions too.
2- Simply reply with "The mere knowledge you exist is a burden upon my soul. I can have no hope in humanity because of people like you"
3- Show up to his doorstep, shout "YOU HAVE ANGERED SHIVA!" and proceed to chase after him with an axe.

Well, that's what I'd do at least.