Ace

Hello all. I've been reading these posts, but this is my first thread. If this belongs in another forum, feel free to move it.

Well, I was just curious if there was a term for my personal beliefs, something I can tell others if they ask. On forms, I like to put other, even if atheist is a choice because I don't really think I can claim there is no god out there. Here's what I believe; tell me what you think:

• The god described in the Bible doesn't exist, nor any other god that watches over us and can intervene in our lives.
• There might be some force or thing we don't understand that created everything. The universe is a beautiful creation in itself, and there is no need for the god of the Bible to have created it to justify its beauty.
• Because there is no Christian god or similar entity, there is no heaven nor hell. There might be an afterlife of some sort (reincarnation? another state of existence?) or there might not be, but it's not something we will know.
• In the end, it's not really that big of a deal if there is a heaven or not.
• What's important is that people live their lives to the fullest, to not feel limited by a god.
• "Miracles" that occur that are said to be from an intervening god could just be a sign of how powerful the human spirit really is in overcoming challanges.
• If a god that intervened in our lives did exist, it would limit our freedom as human beings.

Most importantly though, I don't really feel that I can say there is NO god out there, because there might be. In fact, I believe it's possible (if improbable) that the Christians, etc. could be right, and if so, that's fine to me, but either way, I don't really care.

When I looked up some terms, I found "existential atheist" which is one who doesn't believe in god because if such a god existed, it would limit the freedom of humanity. I've been toying with the idea of "existential agnostic" (to acknowledge that I admit that I could be wrong).

So what am I?

Koyaanisqatsi

Do you need a label?

If so, then I would say you're an agnostic. Or, perhaps a sort of pantheist/theist oriented agnostic (you allow that gods may exist, but until evidence is presented, you're non-committal on the issue).

Just so you know, atheism means "without a belief in a god or gods;" agnosticism means (roughly), "I'm not sure if I believe in a god or gods, but the evidence that exists so far does not convince me of anything so let's get a bagel, I'm hungry."

Welcome to theist hell .

Viti

I would call you agnostic.

Toto

Someone invented the term "uncertain deist" to describe people like you who think there might be something that created the world, but which doesn't intervene in it.

pariah

hell if i know, labels arent imporant anyway. i would go with plain old agnostic

Secular Pinoy

Apathetic deist.

Proxima Centauri

I would call you a weak atheist or agnostic. The two mean roughly the same thing. Weak athleists tend to concentrate on living life as if there certainly were no God. Agnostics are more inclined to speculate on the possibility of a God/gods, an afterlife, reincarnation etc.
The atheism Web will tell you more about this. Click onto the link on the word agnostics.

three4jump

Perhaps when you are ordering up a label at the drive through window, and you ask for the Agnostic label, the scratchy voice would say, "Do you want a soul with that?" I would guess, probably mistakenly, that most atheists and agnostics don't claim to have a soul. I don't. If I did, I would sell it to Milhouse for five bucks.

Ace

Thank you all for your replies. I'd been thinking the best term was agnostic, but I was also just curious if anyone else shared my views.

As to the existence of souls...well, for this discussion, what is the definition of a "soul?" There's a spark of life in us that separates us from things that aren't alive obviously. In fact, when I talk to religious people sometimes, they can't really give me a great definition of a soul, either...hmmm...

By "human spirit," I mean that for example, when someone gets better after suffering illness for no apparent reason and blesses it to God, I think it's possible that the cause of that person's recovery could be that person's will to get better, by believing in themselves (or even a god), they overcame an ailment with their state of mind, etc. Does that make any sense at all?

I don't really need a label, haha, I guess I just sometimes feel that it'd be nice to say in a few words what I've told you all in several sentences. But as you can all see, I personally don't have the best description myself of what I believe, and I also don't really think it's always such a big deal. I remember a Christian friend found it appalling and almost unbelievable that I could say that whether there is a heaven or a god doesn't really matter. Anyone else share this view?

Carlos

If anything, these responses should at least make you feel better about not knowing how to label yourself - and that in itself is a comment on how useful these labels are.

As I see it, your disbelief in the Christian god makes you an atheist ("atheist with respect to the Christian god" if you wish to be pedantic) - because you affirm that the Christian god does not exist. At the same time, you seem to acknowledge that some sort of god might exist (your second bullet); presumably there is not enough evidence to make you strongly believe one way or the other. Because of this I would also call you an agnostic ("I do not know"), but think that "weak atheist" would also be appropriate (lacking belief in the existence of god, but also lacking the belief that god does not exist).