Magus55

You're right, then why are you arguing about it? My argument was presented at Mark9950 since every post he makes brings up the same claim that the Earth was flat, when he has no clue. And according to the Webster dictionary, Circular can mean a sphere or an orb, so there is no reason to assume that the Bible authors thought the Earth was flat, when circle can be used in either context - especially when speaking poetically. I would be more inclined to think the authors thought the Earth was flat had they said disk.

When i hear the verse, "sat upon the circle of the Earth" - I automatically think of a spherical Earth. And we can see from Genesis, that the authors ( Moses at least) did understand a spherical earth because of how the day and night were divided based on the rotation of the Earth.

Magus55

And the Earth is circular shaped when looking at it from space. Look at a picture from Nasa at the Earth - we know its a sphere, but it looks like a circle. Just as looking at a galaxy from the outside, looks like a disk. Were you to stand in the center of the galaxy - it probably wouldn't.

Some people may have thought the Earth was flat - but that in no way means the Bible authors did. Do you see ANY verse in the Bible that says, "flat earth" ? Obviously according to Webster's dictionary, a circle can mean sphere or orb, in one of its definitions - so the verse in Isaiah is a very poor attempt at disproving the Bible, yet Mark9950 brings it up in every post.

Peter Kirby

Genesis 1
1 In the beginning of God's preparing the heavens and the earth --
2 the earth hath existed waste and void, and darkness [is] on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God fluttering on the face of the waters,
3 and God saith, `Let light be;' and light is.
4 And God seeth the light that [it is] good, and God separateth between the light and the darkness,
5 and God calleth to the light `Day,' and to the darkness He hath called `Night;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day one.
6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'
7 And God maketh the expanse, and it separateth between the waters which [are] under the expanse, and the waters which [are] above the expanse: and it is so.
8 And God calleth to the expanse `Heavens;' and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day second.
9 And God saith, `Let the waters under the heavens be collected unto one place, and let the dry land be seen:' and it is so.
10 And God calleth to the dry land `Earth,' and to the collection of the waters He hath called `Seas;' and God seeth that [it is] good.
11 And God saith, `Let the earth yield tender grass, herb sowing seed, fruit-tree (whose seed [is] in itself) making fruit after its kind, on the earth:' and it is so.
12 And the earth bringeth forth tender grass, herb sowing seed after its kind, and tree making fruit (whose seed [is] in itself) after its kind; and God seeth that [it is] good;
13 and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day third.

Day and Night were divided on Day One (verse 5), while the Earth isn't created until Day Three (verse 10).

There is nothing about the rotation of the Earth here. And there is no evidence that the author understood that it is daytime on one half of the Earth and nighttime on the other. You should get a Catholic NAB Bible and look at the picture on the opposite page of Gen. 1:1 to understand what the story says. Here, I'll scan it for you.



best,
Peter Kirby

Peter Kirby

And just in case you think I'm leaving something out...

14 And God saith, `Let luminaries be in the expanse of the heavens, to make a separation between the day and the night, then they have been for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years,
15 and they have been for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth:' and it is so.
16 And God maketh the two great luminaries, the great luminary for the rule of the day, and the small luminary -- and the stars -- for the rule of the night;
17 and God giveth them in the expanse of the heavens to give light upon the earth,
18 and to rule over day and over night, and to make a separation between the light and the darkness; and God seeth that [it is] good;
19 and there is an evening, and there is a morning -- day fourth.

Apparently the author thinks of the "luminaries" as making it day or night, not quite the same as the rotation of the earth.

You can say it is poetry. It is poetry. The creation story is a myth.

best,
Peter Kirby

mark9950

That they were aware that the earth SEEMS flat(It seems flat to you and I not even thinking about it).

But the issue is this is Gods word and man wrote it being man as the ones who is transcribing it while God dictates,so that means this God wrote it not man.

Did God not know that he created the earth round and lie about it or did he just figure that we will not find out the truth.

Magus55

Mark, show me where in the Bible it says the Earth is "flat". If you can't find Earth and flat together in the Bible, drop the stupid argument.

mark9950

Peter Kirby explained it to you,Instead of me trying to convince you of Gods flat Earth try convincing Peter that his post is wrong.


The earth is set on pillars

(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord's, and on them he has set the world. NASA pictures show no pillars

The earth has edges

(Job 38:13 NIV) that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?

Only a flat earth has edges to shake. No edges on our earth


The sky dome Hard as a mirror

Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.

The space shuttles have no problem leaving the earth.

So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.

Job 37:18 NRSV) Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?

Neither do satellites


The sky dome opens

(Acts 10:11 NRSV) He saw the heaven opened and something like a large sheet coming down, being lowered to the ground by its four corners.

(Psa 78:23 NRSV) Yet he commanded the skies above, and opened the doors of heaven (same Hebrew word as sky)

Ok explain how these verses describe a earth the shape of a ball.

Magus55

Its called figurative. It refers to God supporting the Earth ( metaphorically). They aren't literal pillars mark - ever hear of poetic and figurative writing?

KJV uses ends of the Earth, and in context - is referring to the morning light from the sun, spreading over the face of the Earth ( the side that faces the sun). We use the term ends of the Earth in daily speaking too, does that mean the whole world thinks the Earth is flat?

The shaking is figurative, referring to the sun light shaking away the wicked who choose to live in darkness, instead of light.


KJV uses the word firmament, which means an expanse. Its referring to the water vapor atmosphere separating the waters on Earth, from the waters in the atmosphere. Dome/vault is sometimes used, because of its appearence from Earth - it looks like a dome - doesn't mean it is one. Again, figurative language from ancient Hebrew. Study a little more before making blatant generalizations.

mark9950

How do you know that this jesus was not a metaphor instead of a real man?

Celsus

Dear Magus. You are wrong. Please refer to Peter Kirby's diagram. I have another one in Boadt's Reading the Old Testament which is essentially identical (p. 115). Firmament literally means "firm bowl" (Boadt, p. 114) as used in the KJV and isn't actually that far off. "Floodgates of heaven," "pillars of the earth," etc. are now interpreted by apologists as metaphorical, but the common use of the term from ancient Sumerian and Akkadian myths long predating the Genesis P creation account make us realise that the Hebrews borrowed their cosmogony from them. Please refrain from making suggestions about who should "study a little more" unless you have done so yourself.

From here:

• Toward the end of this chapter, Heeren offers a discussion of the Hebrew word “rakiya” (resh-kof-yud-ayin) which he transliterates as “raquia.”_ Heeren repeats the interpretation of that word given several times by various writers, who all intended to find in this word a hint at the Bible’s alleged indication of the universe’s expansion. To achieve such an interpretation, usually reference is made to the verb “raka” (resh-kof-ayin) one of whose meanings in Hebrew is “to stretch.”_ The definitive Hebrew dictionary by Even-Shoshan provides a number of meanings for the word rakiya, but none of them is expanse. The closest translation of “rakiya” (which in KJV is translated as “firmament”) would be “canopy” or “tent” (which, of course, must be stretched to serve its purpose). For the ancient writers who wrote the book of Genesis, the description of the sky as a canopy or tent was a natural manifestation of their view of the apparent blue cupola above their heads. To derive from that word an indication of the expanding universe requires a very inventive imagination indeed._ Some Hebrew-English dictionaries (for example, the dictionary edited by David Shumaker translates rakiya as vault._ Whichever of the possible translations of that word one chooses, expanse is one of the least reasonable.

Joel