Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Wiploc · 02-19-2003, 07:59 PM

In the movie Dogma wasn't Azrael the good guy? If that was the price of getting people out of the torment of eternal hellfire, wouldn't it be right and good to unmake all of creation?
crc

Psycho Economist · 02-19-2003, 08:27 PM

Depends. If you're Buddhist, yes. If you're Christian, probably not. Personally, I don't know. Remember, though that Azrael's own intent was purely selfish, so you Kantians out there might gag at that.

What I do know is that Jay and Silent Bob were the heroes of that movie. And Linda Fiorentino.

demystifier · 02-19-2003, 10:37 PM

yes....more so than God at least. Even though he was being selfish, in this case his selfishness did have better consequences than the alternative...destroying all to save one person from hell is worth it in my opinion....

02-19-2003, 11:22 PM

Who is Azrael? sounds familiar though ...

Rain Dog · 02-20-2003, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Who is Azrael? sounds familiar though ...

Azrael is Gargamel's cat - from The Smurfs. I am filled with shame at knowing this.

RD

dangin · 02-20-2003, 06:54 AM

Heh, heh, heh, heh, holy bartender, I just got it, that's a great one.

Bree · 02-20-2003, 10:37 AM

I'm with Psycho Economist - most Christians would think he was the bad guy, simply because he was acting out of selfishness. Even more so: he was leading people astray - even if it was through God's own loophole

.

Ensign Steve · 02-20-2003, 02:41 PM

I had a similar argument on the topic of the Problem of Evil. I believe that a benevolent, omnicient god, knowing that his creation would lead to suffering, should never have created it. I think it would have been better not to exist at all than to exist and suffer, but I don't think many would agree. Kind of like that "Tis better to have loved ... " cliche.

Azrael was the good guy, though, when he talked some sense into that nun and helped her to realize she was wasting her life.

Jen

Ensign Steve · 02-20-2003, 02:50 PM

PS: I forgot to mention, not only was Azrael Gargamel's cat on the Smurfs (and yes, I am so ashamed that I know that), but Azrael Abyss is the name of the boy on "Goth Talk" on Saturday Night Live. I don't know the girl's name, though. Something Nightshade, I think.

Ensign Steve · 02-20-2003, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Psycho Economist
Remember, though that Azrael's own intent was purely selfish, so you Kantians out there might gag at that.

Utilitarians need not gag, though. As long as the net pleasure right now is negative*, then zero pleasure would be a preferable result, regardless of intent.

*(and cosidering the number of people suffering in hell, compared to the alternative, it probably is)

PS: Sorry I get so impulsive with the submit button before I get my thoughts out. I promise I'm not a slut!

02-19-2003, 07:59 PM	#1
Wiploc Contributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Alaska! Posts: 14,058	Dogma: Was Azrael the good guy? In the movie Dogma wasn't Azrael the good guy? If that was the price of getting people out of the torment of eternal hellfire, wouldn't it be right and good to unmake all of creation? crc

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02-19-2003, 08:27 PM	#2
Psycho Economist Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Peoria, IL Posts: 854	Depends. If you're Buddhist, yes. If you're Christian, probably not. Personally, I don't know. Remember, though that Azrael's own intent was purely selfish, so you Kantians out there might gag at that. What I do know is that Jay and Silent Bob were the heroes of that movie. And Linda Fiorentino.

02-19-2003, 10:37 PM	#3
demystifier Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: manhattan KS Posts: 10	yes....more so than God at least. Even though he was being selfish, in this case his selfishness did have better consequences than the alternative...destroying all to save one person from hell is worth it in my opinion....

02-19-2003, 11:22 PM	#4
Seraphim Guest Posts: n/a	Who is Azrael? sounds familiar though ...

02-20-2003, 06:54 AM	#6
dangin Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: The Middle, Kansas Posts: 2,637	Heh, heh, heh, heh, holy bartender, I just got it, that's a great one.

02-20-2003, 10:37 AM	#7
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	I'm with Psycho Economist - most Christians would think he was the bad guy, simply because he was acting out of selfishness. Even more so: he was leading people astray - even if it was through God's own loophole .

02-20-2003, 02:41 PM	#8
Ensign Steve Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Augusta, Georgia, United States Posts: 1,235	I had a similar argument on the topic of the Problem of Evil. I believe that a benevolent, omnicient god, knowing that his creation would lead to suffering, should never have created it. I think it would have been better not to exist at all than to exist and suffer, but I don't think many would agree. Kind of like that "Tis better to have loved ... " cliche. Azrael was the good guy, though, when he talked some sense into that nun and helped her to realize she was wasting her life. Jen

02-20-2003, 02:50 PM	#9
Ensign Steve Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Augusta, Georgia, United States Posts: 1,235	PS: I forgot to mention, not only was Azrael Gargamel's cat on the Smurfs (and yes, I am so ashamed that I know that), but Azrael Abyss is the name of the boy on "Goth Talk" on Saturday Night Live. I don't know the girl's name, though. Something Nightshade, I think.

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