I ate Pascal's Wafer

Well, I just got myself into a discussion with an evangelistic Muslim. This is completely new to me, so I am sure I'll learn something in the process.

Most of his arguments involve the wonders of nature. For example, he seems to think God exists because nobody else could have created humans. He also thinks God exists because the digestive system of cows isn't adapted to eating meat, and that cows get sick if they do eat meat because they violate God's rules of nature. If God didn't exist, who wrote the rules of nature, eh? Basically, he doesn't seem to be the most intelligent folks out there.

That being said, he does know more about Islam than I do. I think I will learn some things about this religion over the course of our discussions. I hope he learns to use some reasoning skills while we're at it as well. Maybe we can learn much from each other.

I guess I have to pick up a copy of the Qu'ran now. Ah well, I can always use it to try to convert door-to-door xians so that they, too, can come to know the love of Allah. I don't even have to think!! I can use their own arguments as support for Allah's existence. Now, where's the evil grin smiley...

-Nick, that sadistic Atheist jackass who loves thinking of ways to terrorize drive-by xians.

ansarthemystic

that's really weird bro!!!!Muslims aren't supposed to proselytize,evangelize or forcefully convert others!But of course some of us do anyway,but that's beside the point.


peace and blessings

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: ansarthemystic ]</p>

Sephiroth

I wouldn't be worried, those arguments sound quite like the standard Christian arguments. This is the first time I actually heard of an evangelistic Muslim though.

PS: Enjoy your Q'uran.

[ September 16, 2002: Message edited by: Sephiroth ]</p>

sakrilege

There are many pushy atheists because there are pushy xtians. I imagine some Muslims will become pushy for the same reason. I had a Muslim try to explain Islam to me recently and tho not pushy he was certainly eager to be understood.

Susan

[ September 17, 2002: Message edited by: sakrilege ]</p>

Anti-Creedance Front

Then how did Spain get a Muslim population, why did Iran stray from Zoroastrianism, why are there Muslim-Christian wars in the Sudan/Phillipines/Solomon Islands, etc. etc. etc.
I haven't read much of the Qu'ran, but I can tell you, Islam is a PROSELYTIZING religion. They just don't do it as peacefully as Christians (not like Christians do it peacefully). I think Islam is steadying out, and might stop converting, and just think of population growth as new members of the faith, but for now, I'm opposed to it like a brick wall.

hinduwoman

Ah, but Muslims are supposed to share their beautiful religion with others, doing dawah they call it.
The problem is they don't see it as evangelizing, only trying to open people's eyes to the truth.
Semantics!

hinduwoman

sorry, meant to hit edit button, but anyway:

A very efficient Islamic tactic is Islam or Jiziya or the sword.

People who did not want to die converted;
People who grew too poor with paying Jiziya converted;
children whose parents had been in wars by Muslims were enslaved and made Muslims, though they would not know what the hell it was all about;
children of captive women by their Muslim masters were automatically brought up as Muslims.

Standard apology in these days is that is is not real Islam and they mistinterpreted the Koranic verses. My foot!

fando

Hmm, I have a related story to tell.

Once, I read a bit of the Quaran (translated and annotated) to get familiar with the material Salman Rushdie was lampooning in his Satanic Verses. (The revelations of Gabriel to Mohammed, a very important thing in Islam). As was bound to happen, I got into an argument over this subject with a devout Muslim. It started because he was eager to discount anything Rushdie had to say, which was understandable given how Rushdie struck a vital nerve of the Islamic world in satirizing the core tenet of Islam (the Ayatollah Khomeini declared fatwa on Rushdie for this). We had a little tit for tat where he would ask crazy questions about what I 'learned' and he would follow up with some form of insulting or abrasive rebuttal. Here's a sampling:

• You won't understand anything about Islam unless you read the Quaran in the holy language, Arabic.
• You have no right to say what is and is not a tenet of Islam because you are not of Islam.
• Why would you read the words of a very vile person?
• What do you have against X? (X being the Quaran, the angel Gabriel, Mohammed, etc.)
• I am correct because I am a disciple of Allah.

I could go on, but most of it should be familiar from conversations with fundie Christians. However, the first two arguments above were new to me. Argument from exclusiveness?

Anyhoo, it was quite an experience to meet a fundamentalist Muslim. I don't ever want to go through that again though.

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: fando ]</p>

DMB

Translations of the koran into anything other than the original are not the koran. They can act as a guide to the true koran, but that's all. Of course a lot of the koran is in obscure language, not necessarily all of it Arabic, and there is evidence also of variants, although muslims deny this.

Although quite a lot of muslims have had to learn the whole or big chunks of the koran by heart, they don't necessarily understand a word of it. (Imagine you had to learn the Latin bible by heart without knowing more than a few phrases in Latin.)

The Admiral

Apparently Allah is not a powerful enough god to make his word understandable in any language other than Arabic. So much for ommipotence.

The Admiral