Soul Doubt

One, among many, reasons that I was never able, or will never be able to be a christian myself is this issue...

My father died about 6 years ago now. I was 12 at the time, and gave very little thought to any sort of religion. I entertained thoughts of a higher power, and considered courses, but only lightly and in passing. When my dad died, it pretty much shut the door for me on christianity, because he was not "saved". He was not a follower of Jesus. So, therefore, if I were to accept christianity I would be believing that my father, who was a wonderful and good man, was burning in eternal torment.

I don't know about others, but I would think that this kind of moral situation would shut the door for many people on any condemning form of theism. Accepting a condeming religion would be akin to saying that my all relatives and friends who had died non-believers got and deserved eternal torment.

There was a time when I almost became a Mormon, as it's promise of all good people going to some plane of heaven, having three different stages... and I checked it out, actually went to church with the missionaries a few times, but after seeing it's inner workings, particularly the male dominance (even though I'm a guy myself I can't put up with that) as those who truly mattered, I dismissed it as something that could not be the path to true goodness.

I remain doubting agnostic.

Thoughts?

christ-on-a-stick

Howdy Soul Doubt...

The doctrine of eternal damnation is a big one for me in lacking belief in an omnibenevolent God (I don't happen to believe in *any* God, but the reasons for my atheistic position are more than just the eternal damnation doctrine). I would not be surprised if it weren't also a "big one" for many others who have rejected the concept of an all-good, all-loving God.

Vitalij

What you experience is plain and simple influence of pseudoreligions. And your resistance to this dangerous mental junk is absolutely natural. Even atheist who has higher level of standards when it comes to moral-ethical stands and values, performs better than so called christians to "qualify" for being "saved".

Earlier I posted the thread BIBLE - THE ROTTEN FOUNDATION OF FALSE RELIGIONS that goes into some details on the subject. Enjoy the reading and afterwards!

Vitalij
shock-site "Earth - the planet of biorobots"

The AntiChris

With respect, this is a poor reason for rejecting christianity.

Christianity is either true or false regardless of your emotional preferences. Has it occurred to you that christianity could be true and that those theists who believe in eternal damnation for non-believers are simply mistaken?
I think you'll find that "many people" reject God belief for far more fundamental reasons than the mere unpalatability of certain theistic beliefs and practices.

Chris

Opera Nut

So what did Jesus say??? Let us find out:

"What did Jesus teach and preach? Looking at how those who proclaimed to be his followers have acted over the centuries one might suspect that the teacher was himself full of hate. And that is exactly right. Does it surprise anyone that the New Testament's Jesus advocates persecution of those who do not follow him? The Gospels speak for themselves. In particular, it is the Jewish people who are singled out for attack.

"It was to the Jewish people that the Gospel's Jesus presented himself and it was they who rejected his hypocrisy, arrogance and false claims. As a result, it was those "unbelieving" Jews who he condemned and ordered his followers to murder (Luke 19:27). For the Gospel's Jesus, the dictum, "Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you" (Matthew 5:44), did not rule out the oppression and slaughter of those who did not accept him. Jesus' supposed prayer, "Father forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing" (Luke 23:34a), an interpolation not found in the earliest manuscripts of Luke, is carefully crafted to exonerate the soldiers who physically affixed him to the cross. The Jews remain unforgiven. The claim of a gentle Jesus, meek and mild, is simply not true.

"The Jesus of the Gospel of Matthew says, "learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart" (Matthew 11:29). In compliance, many of his followers, throughout the centuries, have hypocritically perpetrated a façade of pseudo- piety declaring the "Christ-like" gentleness and humility of some of the most loathsome haters of Jews. They have learned well for Jesus, "gentle and humble in heart," was one who viciously called for the death of all who did not believe in him. Indeed, it has led to the slaughter of Christians deemed heretics by other Christians as well as millions of others who would not accept the "peace Christ has to offer."

"If Christianity is judged solely on the person of Jesus, as the Gospels depict him, the result is a negative one. One does not have to point to the horrible persecutions perpetrated over the centuries in the name of Jesus, but only to what is taught by the Gospel's Jesus.

"Jesus is recorded as forgiving the sins of those who sinned against others (Matthew 9:2, Mark 2:5, John 8:11); he is even supposed to have told God to forgive (Luke 23:34), but, he himself forgave no one who disagreed with him (Luke 19:27) or did anything against him (Matthew 26:24). Jesus did not live by his own precept that you must love your enemies and pray for them that persecute you (Matthew 11:20-24). He taught others to "turn the other cheek" (Matthew 5:39, Luke 6:29) but did not heed his own teaching (John 18:22-23).

"The New Testament Jesus did not love or pray for his Jewish adversaries in any interaction with them. Those who disagreed with him were vilified, called unrepentant sinners, and condemned.

"The Gospels' Jesus condemns the entire Jewish people, not for what may be classified as their own sins, but for the shedding of all righteous blood throughout history (Matthew 23:35, Luke11:50-51). The Gospels' Jesus irrationally denounced the entire Jewish people for murders neither they nor their fathers committed. He holds them liable for sins they could have had no part in because they were committed even before the birth of Abraham, the progenitor of the nation of Israel.


"John's Jesus is portrayed as though he is no longer a member of the Jewish people. He willfully disassociates himself from the Jews (John 8:17, 10:34).

"Moreover, Jesus identifies the Jews as being the children of the devil; they want to carry out the desires of their father and so are murderers and liars (John 8:44).

"The students have learned their lessons well. Unfortunately, the teacher's message includes a great deal that is evil. Often, Jesus' pronouncements are nothing more than seedbeds for future destructive accusations and mayhem (Matthew 10:34, Luke 12:51). The religious context in which they are taught only provides moral justification to the immoral. The students are who they are. How they interpret and carry out or ignore their teacher's dictums may be debated, but what their teacher taught plain and simple tells us about the teacher.

"Yes, it's about Jesus, the Jesus of the New Testament. It's about what he actually taught. What was good was not new and what was new was not good.

"Yes, it's about Jesus and it's not good."

yguy

Nonsense. Adherence to any particular creed never got anybody into Heaven, nor did failure to utter the right catechism on command damn anybody to Hell.

I suppose if I tried I could back it up scripturally, but perhaps more to the point is, I'm betting my soul on it.

Dr. Retard

That could be a good reason, inasmuch as Christianity claims that everything's subject to the control of a morally perfect being. A good man presumably wouldn't end up in Hell in such a situation.

Of course, there are Christian universalists, so you can't use the argument against all of Christianity.

keyser_soze

Please ignore the nutballs, everyone else does.

Opera Nut

Need to define which nutballs you are talking about please.