Magus55

What kind of verses would actually make you understand it?

God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one god, three distinct beings. Jesus Christ is God the Son, and by becoming mortal, he lowered himself to God the Father. Jesus is still completely God, but He is also human.

Here is a short explanation on why Jesus said God is greater than He. It basically sums up what i said about Him being lowered to God as a human.


http://www.carm.org/questions/father_greater.htm

Amie

I have felt abandoned during extraordinarily difficult times in my life. He was human and I don't really blame him, I would have probably felt that way as well at the time...

Appius

If you take it at face value, what do you make of the I am statements in John?

Starboy

Magus55, nobody understands the trinity. It is one of the mysteries of the religion.

Starboy

Magus55

We understand what the Trinity is and how it can exist, we just don't understand it in detail, its too complex for the human mind to comprehend.

Sabine Grant

Think of God as an element which can take different forms.... such as water. It is the same concept. Actualy it is not that hard to think of an entity who can present himself under 3 different states. God the Father who is a Spirit... Christ the Son in human form. The Holy Spirit, God's presence immaterial but manifested to " his church" or body of believers.
He remains the same under those three forms but reveals Himself differently.
" why have you forsaken me" have never been troubling to me. I understand it to be the moment when Christ is separated from his divine character because of carrying the sins of humanity. Nor did I find troubling that in John, he recommends his mother to his disciple to insure she will be cared for. Or that he pleaded for those who executed Him " Father forgive them for they know not what they are doing". Pretty neat for a man who was undergoing crucifixion.

Magus55

Good point Sabine.

That is an analogy i commonly use to try and explain the Trinity. Think of Matter. Matter as 3 basic forms. Solid, Liquid, Gas. Each have individual and separate properties, yet all are still Matter right?

Same with time. Time has 3 parts, past, present and future. Each are different parts of time, yet all are still time.

Space: Space in its basic form ( not getting into 4th+ dimensions) has height, width, and depth, yet all 3 aspects are still space.

Enlighten Me

Sabine----So why should his killers need forgiveness if they were implementing God's will? Also, if God is "spirit," and the Holy Spirit is "spirit," then how do you perceive three "different" states of one element? I see a lot of mental contortionism (is that a word?) in your explanation....

Sabine Grant

Hello Enlightened Lady... I think Christ refered to the Romans as those " who did not know what they were doing" as they were not aware of prophecies. Again that is my interpretation. Based on your question regarding God's Will, do you believe that God forces people to partake in any criminal act or act which results in killing someone? I do not. I can choose to partake or refuse to partake. But I am accountable one way or the other for my choice. In other words do you believe that for God's Will to be done, He has to deprive humans from the right to choose to partake or not partake?

As for the Spirit explanation... God is a spirit in the sense that He does not have a material body as we do. He may be a form of energy. Noone has seen the face of God. The Holy Spirit is His Character dwelling in the body of believers. It is His Influence which modifies our human character. Note I wrote " influence" not forceful occupation. The Holy Spirit is whom dwells in the soul. Christ is the human form of God, revealing His plan for mankind and demonstrating how we are to treat others ( we had only words till the coming of Christ...). God the Father is the Creator of the Universe, Abba...
I mean I have no problems understanding those three manifestations of God. To me it makes sense but I can see how it is a difficult concept to a mind which is geared to deny the existence of the divine.
How can anyone understand the concept of three angles forming a triangle if they deny the existence of the triangle? I know I am using Descartes... blame it on the fact that I am from France.

Enlighten Me

God of the O.T. certainly forced people to take the lives of others. And you didn't answer the question: Why, if the killers of Jesus were implementing God's will and fulfilling Bible prophecy, should they require forgiveness? Shouldn't they be thanked?