Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Roland · 08-04-2003, 11:40 AM

Did anybody hear Bill O'Reilly's radio program today (Mon, Aug 5th)? He was on a tear about the "secularization" of the culture, prompted by the response to the upcoming Mel Gibson film and the voting taking place in the Episcopal Church about the gay bishop.

The most interesting part was when O'Reilly mentioned that Josephus and Tacitus both proved the existence of an historical Jesus. Of course, nobody was there to debate him on this "proof" so I imagine that his millions of listeners just accepted what he said at face value.

I had never heard Josephus and Tacitus brought up in such a huge forum before. It was quite interesting - and a little sad at the same time.

Doctor X · 08-04-2003, 04:07 PM

It is a common error.

Someone makes the same claim every so often here as well.

Someone should e-mail Bill.

--J.D.

Artemus · 08-04-2003, 05:42 PM

I've seen it on the Discovery Channel. They said that "There is no doubt that Jesus of Nazereth existed..." and then quoted the Testimonium. Take everything they say with a grain of salt.

SLD · 08-04-2003, 07:09 PM

Doesn't Bill O'Reilly have an email address? Sometimes he reads flames he gets, IIRC. I haven't watched him in a long time. I suggest someone with more credentials than I email him and let him know the errors he stated and see if he responds.

SLD

Toto · 08-04-2003, 09:34 PM

O'Reilly has a web site devoted to bashing him: www.oreilly-sucks.com

If you are going to email him, they invite you to send them a copy.

Mail to Bill

Doctor X · 08-04-2003, 09:58 PM

The "oreilly-sucks" site seems like yet another hypocritical site that practices that which it condemns.

E-mail him directly.

--J.D.

Tristan Scott · 08-05-2003, 06:27 AM

I see it as people like O'reilly on one side and those that are convinced the Josephus pieces are complete fabrications on the other, with the truth somewhare between.

I have no doubt that the Testimonium has been redacted, but that does not prove that it is a total fabrication. I see no reason that the piece on James would be fabricated

Artemus · 08-05-2003, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan Scott

I have no doubt that the Testimonium has been redacted, but that does not prove that it is a total fabrication.

What evidence is there that it is not a total fabrication? Once evidence is known to have been tampered with, the burden of proof lies with those who still want to use it to make a point.

Roland · 08-05-2003, 06:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan Scott
I see it as people like O'reilly on one side and those that are convinced the Josephus pieces are complete fabrications on the other, with the truth somewhare between.

I have no doubt that the Testimonium has been redacted, but that does not prove that it is a total fabrication. I see no reason that the piece on James would be fabricated

Perhaps, but O'Reilly should still be honest enough to admit that the passage is controversial in many quarters.

Tristan Scott · 08-05-2003, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Artemus
What evidence is there that it is not a total fabrication?

re: Tesimonium, there have been other copies found that did not appear to be redacted with Xian dogma.

08-04-2003, 11:40 AM	#1
Roland Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: California Posts: 748	Bill O'Reilly on Josephus and Tacitus Did anybody hear Bill O'Reilly's radio program today (Mon, Aug 5th)? He was on a tear about the "secularization" of the culture, prompted by the response to the upcoming Mel Gibson film and the voting taking place in the Episcopal Church about the gay bishop. The most interesting part was when O'Reilly mentioned that Josephus and Tacitus both proved the existence of an historical Jesus. Of course, nobody was there to debate him on this "proof" so I imagine that his millions of listeners just accepted what he said at face value. I had never heard Josephus and Tacitus brought up in such a huge forum before. It was quite interesting - and a little sad at the same time.

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08-04-2003, 04:07 PM	#2
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	It is a common error. Someone makes the same claim every so often here as well. Someone should e-mail Bill. --J.D.

08-04-2003, 05:42 PM	#3
Artemus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: USA Posts: 2,467	I've seen it on the Discovery Channel. They said that "There is no doubt that Jesus of Nazereth existed..." and then quoted the Testimonium. Take everything they say with a grain of salt.

08-04-2003, 07:09 PM	#4
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Doesn't Bill O'Reilly have an email address? Sometimes he reads flames he gets, IIRC. I haven't watched him in a long time. I suggest someone with more credentials than I email him and let him know the errors he stated and see if he responds. SLD

08-04-2003, 09:34 PM	#5
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	O'Reilly has a web site devoted to bashing him: www.oreilly-sucks.com If you are going to email him, they invite you to send them a copy. Mail to Bill

08-04-2003, 09:58 PM	#6
Doctor X Banned Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: USA Posts: 3,794	The "oreilly-sucks" site seems like yet another hypocritical site that practices that which it condemns. E-mail him directly. --J.D.

08-05-2003, 06:27 AM	#7
Tristan Scott Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Southwest USA Posts: 4,093	I see it as people like O'reilly on one side and those that are convinced the Josephus pieces are complete fabrications on the other, with the truth somewhare between. I have no doubt that the Testimonium has been redacted, but that does not prove that it is a total fabrication. I see no reason that the piece on James would be fabricated

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