Clara Listensprechen

Looks like I forgot something....

That's true--the plague had a lot to do with a lot of it as well.

What philechat said.

Clara Listensprechen

Don't know what NARP is, but I DO know that Islam is NOT a non-Abrahamic religion. This still ain't the right place for this topic.

Clara Listensprechen

Kalvan, that's an impressively detailed account you give, but in the last portion it's still missing a couple critical points...
You're not counting the Mamelukes and the British when you say "forever".
Not entirely. Magism had long morphed into Zoroasterism as the Persian state religion, and what happened there was a melding of Islam and Zoroasterism under the heading of Islam to avoid the paying of that tax levied on non-Muslim residents of a Muslim nation. The sum total of what was actually practiced wasn't exactly classic Islam either Shiya or Sunni. That it eventually became mainly Shiite rather than Sunni is of particular interest. This fell pretty much into the category of protesting the invading regime while avoiding conqueror's wrath.
The fascinating details here that deserve to be included was that the Turks on the Eastern front hadn't converted yet to Islam, and I'm refering to the fact that they were unconverted until the thirteenth century, first convert being Osman (Othman), the founder of the Ottoman Empire--converted to Islam by an ex-Christian Greek of high social rank, no less. The Eastern part of the Empire was successful in holding back the Saracen Muslems with full credit going to --ta da!--the Greeks and their infernal invention of what's called "Greek Fire". Southern Italy actually fell to Muslim invasion, tho not the northern part and that's explained mainly by the tough line-drawing Teutons. The central part including Rome was ransacked though saved from falling.
The missing details here are that the Islamic Empire had grown much larger than the Roman Empire ever had been, having captured all of the southern Mediteranean coast, crossing over the Gibralter strait and commanded all of Spain, having been stopped by the Franks. They were all over the Balkans, which later became a part of the Ottoman Empire.

Kalvan

Constantine disbanded the Praetorian guard in 312 because they had sided with his rival Maxentius.
I said the Roman Empire lost Palestine and Syria. The Mamelukes and British are not Romans.
The Arabs conquered the Sassanid empire militarily and occupied the country. Whatever religious accomodation the conquered people subsequently may have arrived at to deal with their situation emotionally doesn't change that.
The Emperor Romanus Diogenes was defeated at Manzikert in 1071 by the Seljuk Turks under Alp Arslan. The Seljuks had converted to Islam over a hundred years before in 956.

Paperstreet

I like your name tyler d.

Clara Listensprechen

And there ya have it, folks--as many different versions of Roman Empire history as there are versions of The Bible.

Consider the source, and consider the agenda of the source, do your own reading of more than 3 authors of hardcopy books at least and the more, the better.

Clara Listensprechen

P.S. on a few fine points...about the Praetorian Guard, they developed a long track record of backstabbing, so it's reasonable to realize that simply announcing their disbandment didn't actually pull their teeth, what with the convoluted network of intrigue they'd established in the Rome 'hood. Telling Saddam to GIT didn't git the Fedayeen gone, either. Same principle involved here.

The Saracens had big trouble hanging on to their conquered Sassanid Empire in Persia, as the old Persian Empire was a state religion stronghold of considerable vigor. Whereas the religion was the prime issue with the Saracens, Persia simply morphed their religion into their prefered form of it. Persia had no problem morphing from Magism to Zoroasterism, so morphing again was no problem. SEE ALSO: Sufis.

Regardless of what tribe of Turks converted when, the Korasmian Turks and the Seljuk Turks were allied due to the fact that the Korasmians, upon their entry to the region, came upon the then-leader of the Seljuks, Aladdin, in the middle of a war which he was losing. Orthogrul, Othman's father, allied with the aforementioned Aladdin mid-battle and the two camps beat the enemy. Aladdin then gave Orthogrul a land grant as a reward, and this land abutted the area of land which was the Turk-held land that was closest to Constantinople (the Bithynia & Phrygia area, in the mountains, on the banks of Sanjar, naming it Surgut), in 1280. He repeatedly raided the Byzantine empire from that location and for his valor, also became Seljuk Sultan of Iconium.

Orthogrul's 3rd son, Othman (Osman) wrested Constantinople directly, taking advantage of a civil war between Andronicus The Elder and The Junior. Othman took Constantinople from no other Turk.

Othman was converted to Islam during his residency in Surgut by a Greek individual whose name still escapes my discovery, but I do have the information that he was one of the Michaelogi.