Freethought & Rationalism Archive

galiel · 11-05-2002, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Vibr8gKiwi:


The number of people who think the moon landing was a hoax rose dramatically after Fox aired (several times) a one-sided special on the topic.

Again, this whole thing is simply deplorable and Fox deserves most of the blame.

Sorry, but you are wrong. The hoax-conspiracy nuts have been around, in force, ever since the first landing. The number of people who watched that Fox show, and the number of them who were swayed from believing in the landing to believing in a hoax theory is surely not significant.

You might as well blame "Capricorn One", a movie whose far-fetched plot was based on a hoax conspiracy, with swaying popular opinion. A lot more people have seen that than some Fox special.

Despite the impression of the young, history did not start yesterday :-)

Let's not seek to find fault in others, when the problem is that we participate in a society that is poorly educated in critical thinking.

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-05-2002, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by galiel:
Sorry, but you are wrong. The hoax-conspiracy nuts have been around, in force, ever since the first landing. The number of people who watched that Fox show, and the number of them who were swayed from believing in the landing to believing in a hoax theory is surely not significant.

Sorry, but I'm right. Some small number of hoax nuts have been around forever, however when a "special" comes on and gives only one-side in a very glitzy and convincing way it can change public opinion. That is the power (and responsibility) the media has�unfortunately Fox has all the power with none of the responsibility. Again, I saw the special and even I started to doubt until I looked into the answers to the questions it raised.

Also here's a comment from an article that supports the increase due to Fox:

"Yet a 1999 poll found that 11 percent of the American public doubted the moon landing happened, and Fox officials said such skepticism increased to about 20 percent after their show, which was seen by about 15 million viewers."

From this article: <a href="http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4397818.htm" target="_blank"> NASA commissions book to prove moon landing really happened</a>

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

crazyfingers · 11-05-2002, 12:28 PM

In the Boston Globe today there was another astronomy related hoax that is floating around these days.

Quote:

The e-mail's author said her brother had heard that a rogue planet called ''Planet X'' was going to pass by the Earth in May of 2003. When it did, it would cause massive damage: floods, volcanoes, death on a global scale. Her brother was so worried that he was planning on putting his house in coastal Maine up for sale. He didn't want to be anywhere near the ocean come May, when the Earth's axis shifted due to the gravity of Planet X.

Sighing, I composed a reply. There was nothing to fear, I wrote. Planet X is just another in a long line of mythical astronomical death sentences that somehow always fail to materialize. The month of May will come and go next year, I wrote, just as it always has, and Planet X will be relegated to the junk pile along with countless other breathlessly prophesized deadlines.

<a href="http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/309/science/X_doesn_t_mark_the_spot+.shtml" target="_blank">Planet X</a>

Edit to add: Hey seesaw. Welcome to II

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: crazyfingers ]

galiel · 11-05-2002, 01:03 PM

Hey, if Fox says it, it must be true.
Come to think of it, that means their "documentary" must be true, too!!!!

rolling eyes at people who seek to discredit a source by citing the same source.

seesaw · 11-05-2002, 01:07 PM

Dang thx for the replies. I think I have got my answer.

Vibr8gKiwi · 11-05-2002, 01:18 PM

Nice strawman. I wasn't attempting to discredit Fox (Fox discredits itself--heck are they actually bragging they've made people more ill-informed?). I was attempting to support my statement that the Fox special had an impact. I'm aware that statement is a claim by fox, however notice NASA has found its original response to the special was insufficient and is finding it must respond with its own PR. Again, these aren't my claims--these are claims being made in the media.

Also notice I'm commenting on something I've actually seen rather than just calling people names from the position of having never seen the item in question. Take my word for it, if your only experience with the moon-landing was that special, you'd think it was a hoax. It's as simple as that. The arguments, when presented without rebuttal, are persuasive to the novice--it has nothing to do with people being stupid, gullible, lacking critical thinking skills or whatnot. Though if it makes you feel like a beacon of brains surrounded by multitudes of morons, you can think whatever you want.

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]

beausoleil · 11-05-2002, 01:52 PM

I think blaming the Fox programme is quite reasonable - the year after it aired I started getting a lot of students telling me the moon landing was a hoax. Never happened before.

Shadowy Man · 11-05-2002, 02:19 PM

About 90% of the issues brought up by the Fox special can be explained by an understanding of photography and light conditions. The other 10% is explained by understanding how things move and react in low gravity and vacuum.

Phil Plait on his Bad Astronomy web page does a really nice job of shooting down the entire Fox special.

galiel · 11-05-2002, 03:36 PM

I stand corrected. Since I have been aware of the Moon hoax conspirators for a long time (ferreting out bogus science and conspiracy theories being something of a hobby of mine), I was not aware that the FOX show had such an impact. Of course, I find it hard to believe that more people watch FOX news, too ;-)

If anything, the fact that such a show could have such an impact just reinforces my conviction that people are not taught to think critically, or they would never take such an extraordinary claim without actively seeking out extraordinary corroborating proof.

See? It's not that hard to admit error and apologize when one makes an honest mistake. I wish more people in these forums in general would be willing to do it rather than cling tenaciously to everything they say as if their life depended on it.

beausoleil · 11-05-2002, 11:30 PM

Why this need to feel superior?

The ability to think critically is far from rare, in my experience. I think that people apply it across a very small range of their beliefs, however, for various reasons.

The Moon landings just aren't important enough to most people to bother thinking about in depth.

11-05-2002, 01:18 PM	#16
Vibr8gKiwi Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: CA, USA Posts: 543	Nice strawman. I wasn't attempting to discredit Fox (Fox discredits itself--heck are they actually bragging they've made people more ill-informed?). I was attempting to support my statement that the Fox special had an impact. I'm aware that statement is a claim by fox, however notice NASA has found its original response to the special was insufficient and is finding it must respond with its own PR. Again, these aren't my claims--these are claims being made in the media. Also notice I'm commenting on something I've actually seen rather than just calling people names from the position of having never seen the item in question. Take my word for it, if your only experience with the moon-landing was that special, you'd think it was a hoax. It's as simple as that. The arguments, when presented without rebuttal, are persuasive to the novice--it has nothing to do with people being stupid, gullible, lacking critical thinking skills or whatnot. Though if it makes you feel like a beacon of brains surrounded by multitudes of morons, you can think whatever you want. [ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Vibr8gKiwi ]</p>

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11-05-2002, 01:03 PM	#14
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	Hey, if Fox says it, it must be true. Come to think of it, that means their "documentary" must be true, too!!!! rolling eyes at people who seek to discredit a source by citing the same source.

11-05-2002, 01:07 PM	#15
seesaw Regular Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA Posts: 136	Dang thx for the replies. I think I have got my answer.

11-05-2002, 01:52 PM	#17
beausoleil Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: US and UK Posts: 846	I think blaming the Fox programme is quite reasonable - the year after it aired I started getting a lot of students telling me the moon landing was a hoax. Never happened before.

11-05-2002, 02:19 PM	#18
Shadowy Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A Shadowy Planet Posts: 7,585	About 90% of the issues brought up by the Fox special can be explained by an understanding of photography and light conditions. The other 10% is explained by understanding how things move and react in low gravity and vacuum. Phil Plait on his Bad Astronomy web page does a really nice job of shooting down the entire Fox special.

11-05-2002, 03:36 PM	#19
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	I stand corrected. Since I have been aware of the Moon hoax conspirators for a long time (ferreting out bogus science and conspiracy theories being something of a hobby of mine), I was not aware that the FOX show had such an impact. Of course, I find it hard to believe that more people watch FOX news, too ;-) If anything, the fact that such a show could have such an impact just reinforces my conviction that people are not taught to think critically, or they would never take such an extraordinary claim without actively seeking out extraordinary corroborating proof. See? It's not that hard to admit error and apologize when one makes an honest mistake. I wish more people in these forums in general would be willing to do it rather than cling tenaciously to everything they say as if their life depended on it.

11-05-2002, 11:30 PM	#20
beausoleil Senior Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: US and UK Posts: 846	Why this need to feel superior? The ability to think critically is far from rare, in my experience. I think that people apply it across a very small range of their beliefs, however, for various reasons. The Moon landings just aren't important enough to most people to bother thinking about in depth.

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