GaryP

I noticed this announcement on a sign in front of a local HS:

Commencement & Baccalaureate-- June 1


I sent this note to the superintendent;

I noticed that the sign in front of FU High School notified people of the Commencement & Baccalaureate ceremonies slated for June 1.

Are you aware that the Supreme Court has declared school sponsored religious services to be illegal?

It is my understanding that such a ceremony is OK if it is sponsored by a private group and that private group is charged the same rate to use the facilities as any other.

Of course, it must also be strictly voluntary.

I understand that this may indeed be the case, but the sign in front of your building could be seen as a promotion of this event.

I have found this on Americans United for Separation of Church and State's website;

School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation, nor may they organize a religious baccalaureate ceremony. If the school generally rents out its facilities to private groups, it must rent them out on the same terms, and on a first- come first-served basis, to organizers of privately sponsored religious baccalaureate services, provided that the school does not extend preferential treatment to the baccalaureate ceremony and the school disclaims official endorsement of the program.

http://www.au.org/relsch.htm

I'm sure you would like to assure ALL the citizens of your school district feel as if their viewpoints are respected. Nothing is more personal than one's religious beliefs.

Perhaps next year, the system could take steps to make sure people know the service is not school sponsored.

Thanks for your consideration.

Does anyone else have stories of public schools doing questionable things such as this during the Graduation season?

openeyes

I'm currently trying to work with my high school to get them out of basically sponsoring the baccalaureate service (it's held a different evening than the commencement.) Somehow, because it's not required, they think it's ok. What has happened is that the choir teacher organizes the music; participation if you're in the choir is optional. He used to do the refreshments also but now I think the principal is working with someone else, a local Girl Scout troup. They hold it had a local Catholic church; the highlight of the evening is the singing of the "Hallelujah Chorus" from the Messiah. It's on the school calendar and was listed on a program for a different concert as an upcoming event. The principal that just resigned really thought it was a "neat" ceremony. I'm hoping the new principal with see that it's not appropriate to have the school involved as it is.

I raised this question at a PTA meeting (I was one of about 10 people there) and could see that no one else really saw the problem. :banghead:

The superintendent was going to have one of their legal counsel take a look, but he hasn't got back to me. I'm planning to follow up soon, as I know it'll be on next year's calendar if I don't press them. I trying to be low-keyed, but if I have to, I'll do more.

It tough being the atheist parent sometime! (Especially since most other parents don't know it. As I single mom, whose ex turned out to be a bit loony to say the least, I already have a couple strikes against me, so I tread lightly. Fortunately, both my kids do more than their part in keeping up the average test scores; my older one could be a poster boy for the model student almost, 'cept he's more outspoken about being atheist than I am! He recently read a excerpt from Percy Bysshe Shelley's "The Necessity of Atheism" for his honors English class.)

GaryP

openeyes--

I think the law is on your side. If the school is not sponsoring it, they most certainly are encouraging and/or promoting it.

Locally, the Ministerial Assn. used to rent one of the county HS auditoriums and hold the service the Sunday evening before most of the local commencements.

They did this for a couple of years (with much cheerleading from the local paper). Then, they just stopped doing it. I assume the turnout was not too great or the local people would have kept it up.

It is indeed hard to be an Atheist parent. My kids are recently out of school. A few years ago, I had written a letter to the HS choir director pointing out the fact that the choir's participation in a Xmas concert at a church (called"Alleluia, praise & Amen") might just be construed as being over the line.

While walking into Kroger's about a week after I sent the letter I overheard 2 girls saying " Who does that GaryP actually they used my real name) think he is anyway?

Since I didn't know them I could only conclude that they had been read my letter by the choir director. Later, I heard from one of the kids in the choir that she had posted my letter on the choir bulletin board. One has to have a semi-tough skin to challenge some of this stuff.

openeyes

As you agreed, it's tough to be outspoken about these church-state separation issues because general American society doesn't see the problem. And of course, we atheists are still suspect, to say the least. Unfortunately for the others, if you leave the religious aspect out of it, the values they try to promote (e.g. honesty, fairness, being true to yourself, raising thoughtful kids, community involvement, solving or managing your own problems) are ones with which I try to live by and leave me no choice but to speak up when I think it's necessary. A bit ironic, eh?

DMB

It would be more to the point if instead of abusing the word "baccalaureate" for this kind of nonsense, the schools were to adopt the International Baccalaureate programme.

openeyes

It is a bit confusing. My American Heritage dictionary from 1976 has two definitions of baccalaureate 1) The degree of Bachelor conferred upon graduates of most U.S. colleges and universities. 2) A farewell address in the form of a sermon delivered to the graduating class in most U.S. colleges and universities and in some high schools.

My 1993 edition of the same dictionary leaves out the part "in the form of a sermon."

In these parts (and apparently in GaryP's area also) it's usually meant to be some sort of religious ceremony involving graduates, though there are a couple high schools in the area that offer the IB program.

GaryP

I got this back from the super. today;

First, you need to check your facts. The Federal Equal Access Law requires
that religious have access to facilities on the same basis as other groups.
Also, the service is student planned and conducted and attendance is voluntary.

I wrote back stating again that if it is student initiated, it is of course OK.

But I still felt that listing it on their sign could be seen as promotion of the event. I wrote that if they normally advertise other events that he might have a valid argument.

But after I sent it, I began to think that a school is allowed to promote say, a donkey basketball game or charity event, but they are not allowed to promote religious events. I think I should have made that point.

This is the same school that allowed Gideon Bibles to be distributed for 20 some years and where a teacher was leading the Lord's prayer for quite a few years. And this guy is telling me to get my facts straight!

openeyes

Now that I recall, the "old" principal in my situation said that the event was ok because it's student-led. Only problem is, it didn't seem student-led to me. I'll have to be sure they explain more precisely how the students lead it if they use that argument again.

Zora

When I graduated high school in 1966, attendance at baccalaureate services was mandatory. If you didn't attend, you didn't get your diploma. Period. So, while this stuff is irritating, we have made much progress in making attendance optional. If your children are suffering discrimination, persecution, ridicule or whatever because they refuse to participate in religious activities, I'd get on the hot-line with the ACLU immediately.

Posting your letter on the bulletin board crosses the line, I think. Communication between parents and school officials is NOT the business of the students. I'm afraid I'd have marched down to the school and had a "come to Jesus" with the choir director and principle!

At my baccalaureate, my Dad had a couple of drinks beforehand, then sang, at the top of his lungs, eyes closed, hymn book open: "Holy, Holy, Holy! Jesus Christ Almighty!" Pretty much all eyes were on him. It was really funny, and I loved every minute of it...as did my not-so-religious friends.

GaryP

Zora--

Hey, I graduated from HS in '68! And I had a compulsory Baccalaureate also. That is, if you did not attend, you could not go through the commencement exercises the next week either.

I can't find it right now, but I'm pretty sure that the decision that such events were illegal was in '64 or so.

One detail I didn't mention about this case is that the baccalaureate and the commencement were both scheduled June 1 and that makes me highly suspicious that the baccalaureate was held first and the commencement immediately after.

If it did happen that way, can you imagine the pressure on kids just to go to both rather than be seen walking in "late" to their own graduation?

And given the history of schools in this area, I would not doubt that many teachers were at the baccalaureate worshipping right along with the kids. And this would probably be OK with the law because they would have been doing so as a private citizen.