Jimmy Higgins

Well thank "god" we live in an existence where "god" luckily turned out to be "holy" by "nature".

Demigawd

I assume theology to you is solely Christian dogma, not multi-religions studies. Is my assumption correct?

Godless Dave

Magus, we are trying to understand but despite your best efforts it still doesn't make any sense. Why would an all powerful creator god make up a bunch of arbitrary rules for humans to follow? I mean, what does it matter to him if we eat pork or not, or if we masturbate (which he created us with a biological necessity to do)? So he makes up these laws, but only tells them to one group of people in one part of the world. Then, because apparently they can't follow them (and the rest of the world still doesn't know about them), he devises a way to get us out of his punishment for them - his punishment for his laws. If he hadn't made up the laws in the first place he wouldn't have to punish us for breaking them. Furthermore, the "punishment" Jesus takes on our behalf is to die - but all humans, to this day, have to die.

Mageth

I know theology is too hard for you all to grasp, but at least try - or if your only purpose of making these sarcastic, redundant remarks is to mock me - then keep it to yourself or let me know so I can stop wasting my time and put you on ignore.

Well, there's a point in Christian Theology that seems to be the question of the OP of this thread, that I and others have reiterated, and that you have yet to answer - why is blood sacrifice required to appease God? As I said in earlier posts: Why did god require a man-god sacrifice??? Why did god set up "His Laws" so that a human (perfect or not) had to be sacrificed by other humans to appease god's wrath at our breaking of his laws? Why couldn't Jesus have just died of old age, without being sacrificed?

The reason this stuff is "hard to grasp" is because it doesn't make any sense - unless one realizes the whole "sacrifice" bit is a holdover from primitive sacrificial religions, which for the most part the world has, fortunately, outgrown.

Biff the unclean

Um He did tell the Jews, most of them just have too much pride and ignore the truth.
Odd that they didn't notice
They think they are exempt from salvation because they are the chosen ones.
No they don't have the concept of salvation because it is part of Mithraism and not Judaism. They have nothing to be saved from. It's a non-topic.

I am a Jew!
Pull the other one!!!!
The Old Covenant was done away with because no one could follow the laws
You could fool the rest of the Jews. They don't know about their inability.
that method of atonement no longer applies.
So, according to you, the unchanging word of God is changed. Now you are calling God a liar.
The sacrificing of animals was a substitution for the true Sacrifice of the perfect Son of God - why do you think Jesus is called the Lamb of God?
Because that was one of the titles of Mithra and when the Romans were changing the pip squeak Christian cult into a religion with political clout they added most of Mithraism to it.
Because the Jews used to sacrifice lambs for God, since Jesus hadn't come yet - when Jesus died - He was the final and perfect "Lamb" that the Jews had been substituting for.
So we get back to the OP and you are claiming to worship a monster God who demands human sacrifice even though the Jewish God had done away with human sacrifice hundreds of years before. DISGUSTING.

Yes they did, See above - Jews have the NT just like non-Jews. And Xians have the OT and the OT says nothing about any unpayable debt. Nothing about eternal punishment for the sin of being born.
Are you say Yahweh (of course Yahweh isn't in the NT, his name is never mentioned) changed the rules four thousand years into the game? Are you saying that God lied to the Jews?


It most certaintly does - it has more to do with them than anything else. Christianity revolves around Judaism and Israel.
Where? I see Jesus in the bible get circumcised and then the next Jewish thing he does is hold Passover incorrectly. A few quotes from the OT are sprinkled about and that's about it.
You have a different God. A different type of God-triune instead of mono. Jews put people to death for not keeping the Sabbath because it was so important. The day is changed to that of the Mithrains (Magi) the ceremony is changed. All the Jewish laws are discarded. The OT is re-edited and turned inside out to match the Xian view. A new "Bible" is written and it is filled with anti-Semitism. Christianity doesn't revolve around Judaism, it despises it. Look at the long relationship Christianity has had with Judaism. The only revolving I see is that done by severed Jewish heads.

Amaranth

Keep riding that high horse, cowboy. Just remember, you're the one who can't define what a follower of your religion is. Or would you like to finally tackle that "True Christian" question?

Amaranth

Careful, Mageth. It's only ok to sacrifice a man to god sometimes. Just ask Cain.

Mageth

I know theology is too hard for you all to grasp, but at least try...

Oh, it's all clear to me now. Jesus is the Son of God, the Word of God made flesh, and the Lamb of God. But, don't forget Jesus is God.

Jesus had to die on the Cross to meet the requirements of God's Nature, God's Judgment. But, since Jesus is God, God had to die to appease Himself. And since he did it voluntarily, God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself. And this all under the clever system of Law that God himself decreed that requires sacrificial blood to be shed to "cover" sins.

In the garden shortly before the execution, God said "Not my will, but mine." And while dying, he said "Myself, myself, why have I forsaken me?"

Yeah, that all makes a lot of sense to me.

Biff the unclean

Wrong, God does have an authority - Himself.
Which is exactly what I said
God can't not be Just and punish law-breakers - it goes against His righteous and Holy nature.
In other words it's what he feels like doing. You can put it in as religious sounding language as you please--but in common English you are talking about God's whims.

But if this justice requirement is so it completely negates "Grace"

But if you are "saved" from being punished by Grace alone then there can be no justice. You can't have it both ways--they contradict each other.
So which is it? Is God just, or is there divine Grace?

They can't, because its part of their character and nature - the only difference is, they can change jobs and aren't perfect - God's nature is eternal and perfect.
If it is eternal and perfect then you cannot have the New Covenant that you claim. You can't be perfect and forever and change at the same time.

I know theology is too hard for you all to grasp, but at least try
Be sure to let us know when we get to the Theology part. All I've seen so far is that simple basic logic eludes you at every turn.

or if your only purpose of making these sarcastic, redundant remarks is to mock me - then keep it to yourself or let me know so I can stop wasting my time and put you on ignore
Yes, I am mocking you and making fun of you. I am doing so because you continue to ignore what is being said to you and continue to repeat a mindless mantra to us.
My hope is to make you angry, so that you will stop ignoring what is being said. If you get angry enough about being told that your beliefs are stupid maybe you will stop and think about them to try to prove that they are not. And if you get angry enough to prove that they aren't stupid maybe you will stop repeating and repeating the same catch phrases that your brain washers used on you and start thinking for yourself.
Whatever conclusion you reach is up to you. Just as long as you think for yourself and stop regurgitating this pre-packaged lunacy.

Magus55

Jesus is both God and human. He retains his divine nature, but also takes on a human nature. He is lower than God the Father because on Earth, he was mortal.