John Page

But that is a conceptual difficulty only, the line between the ends of each 2'x4' doesn't exist. Perhaps the sciguys can help us here.

Cheers, John

Tani

in a sense, we can also call the card game chooses its future and freely chooses destiny of its own.

but if the freedom must be attributed to the elements of the card game, namely the players involved, instead of the card game as a whole, we can also ask what inside each person that makes each of them free.

Darth Dane

in a sense, we can also call the card game chooses its future and freely chooses destiny of its own.

I don't understand this.

but if the freedom must be attributed to the elements of the card game, namely the players involved, instead of the card game as a whole, we can also ask what inside each person that makes each of them free.

The whole card game AND players are the same. The players are also cards that can be dealt(we get children!)

Our conciousness is what makes us aware of our freedom, and teh conciousness is wha makes free choices based on what is present in the concious(mostly) Mind.

If we are to believe Jesus, we can in fact move mountains, which would constitute freedom, that is a "card" we can play, to have more control of our conciousness. Imagine we are cards dealt from a higher hand, just as we can move mountains, someone used the card(create humans with freewill), and here we are participating.





DD - Love & Laughter

Normal

Planck lengths (which would be the unit of relevance here) are only the smallest lengths of which it is reasonable to talk about, which means lengths smaller then the Planck length "exist", but they are so small that they are irrelevant. However, in my example of electrons in position around an orbit, they are not irrelevant. An electron could be two and a half Planck length past "0" for one possibility, if another electron was one and a half Planck lengths out from 0 as well, the combined difference between the two would be 3 Planck lengths, but if we "cut out" the half Planck lengths, we'd "lose" one Planck length of accuracy, and that would effect reality.

Tani

if you're saying the card game does not itself possess freedom, and has a cause, or is one of the cards as you call them, then you haven't provide any reason why consciousness is exempt from being viewed as such. this problem is especially examplified with your assertion stating that it is possible to "have more control of our conciousness"at the end of your last post.

let's put down the awareness of freedom for a second and take a closer look at this freedom you are talking about. free choices based on something? perhaps you mean to say the consciousness makes free choices amongsts what is presented in the conscious mind. but if choices are, at the very least can be, entirely free from any influences, then you must be able to make a choice, a theorical pure choice, where no preference or reason is present. and i have to ask, what does it mean to make a choice where you're absolutely indifferent between the differences and have absolutely no reason to choose one over the others? and how do you subsequently differentiate this "choice" from randomness?

John Page

:notworthy - well put!

auto-da-fe

If you wish to take it to the philosophical extreme, you can say that the simple fact that you have a choice, can, in and of itself, limit free choice. If you can choose between Coke or Pepsi, you have free will to choose one or the other, or you have free will to choose neither. You can also say though, that true free will would require limitless choices. Otherwise, all you are doing is navigating left or right, but have no choice but to go forward.

You can differentiate it from randomness because if you control the choice that is made (I choose Pepsi for example) then that choice was made with free will. For it to be random, the choice would have to be made for you, and forced on you. Then, which of the two you would choose would be considered random because you have no control over it. For something to be random, that is the key element, control. If you have control (in any manner) then it is not random, conversely, if you have no control and the choice is made for you, then it CAN be random (although the mechanism making the choices for you may not be random from their/its perspective, only random to yours).

Darth Dane

Nice megadave

I have a feeling that question is "Where did the card game come from?"

It just Is.

It is an analogy to understand what is Now, not how it was created.

If only Now exist, then it is uncreated creation, unmovable mover, soundless sound, keep em coming....




DD - Love & Laughter

Ensign Steve

Oh-Tay! Thanks for the explain. I was not aware of that.

(anal: except the combined difference would be 4)

Normal

To save face, I'm going to say I preemptively cut out the lost Planck length.