Magus55

Why thank you, the Bible described it so its not a fantasy to 2 billion people. I'll take that coming from an atheist as a complement.

Mad Kally

Thank you for proving you know nothing about depression.

Sabine Grant

Well I am a christian and I never made that claim. I am not an american citizen so I do not feel compelled to recitate a pledge in any form possible with or without any specific mention to any god.

However if I were a US citizen, I would still be uncomfortable with recitating any pledge which makes deep nationalistic claims. I would still stand as I do now as a mark of respect for the people who do value its message.

In terms of how an individual chooses to place the words " under God" while recitating the Pledge, the most recent court decision does not preclude individual freedom of expression. In other words, I do not see why some christians fuss about it since they can still individualy add " under God"in their mind or even utter it. You can add Allah.. buddah... the man on the moon...or nothing at all.

Why is that such an issue in America when each person is warranted the constitutional right to leave out the mention of God or include it and always personaly. Of course it can only be unconstitutional for government officials and public government services to promote the mention of any god as part of their function. :The neutrality of the government is ESSENTIAL to uphold freedom for all. Same freedom which warrants the right to me as a christian to pray and the right for a non christian to NOT have to be forced to be part of any audience to anyone's prayers.

Anyways.... to go back on topic shadowy man. There are different heavens and different gods. A lot to choose from. I am sure you knew that and were setting up Magus 55 for one of the christian contradictions in arguments presented to justify the " under God" mention.

Mad Kally

Sabine,
Have you ever stayed in bed unable to function, day after day, week after week, month after month just staring at the ceiling, wanting more than anything to be dead. But you don't even have the energy to make a plan to kill yourself.

Have you ever depended on someone to change your clothes, try to force feed you cans of Ensure for months? Never able to change clothes or clean yourself without assistance?

Have you heard anyone tell you, "Why don't you just get up instead of lying there, come on pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Or cheer up, other people are worse off than you."

You might as well tell a paraplegic to just get out of that chair and walk. Do you think doctors walk on water? Would you need anyone to tell you about severe clinical depression?

Until you have been through it, or something not even a fraction as bad, stop saying idiotic things like "Cheer up!"

Treacle Worshipper

Eric,
I'm going to ignore the debate on whether someone actually diagnosed you as depressive. You wrote:
What I want to say is, if joining the church doesn't solve your low feelings, being in the church is also unlikely to do so. In my personal experience people who suffer from low feelings or depression are told that this is because their relationship with Jesus is wrong, and as soon as they get that sorted out, everything will be hunkydory.
If you're feeling down because of your situation, joining the church and getting some hope into your life may help. If there is something more underlying your low feelings, it may not.
It is kinda lonely feeling you're not part of a grand plan and wondering how you're supposed to deal with life without a structure, but it is possible to create your own structure. I think that those who have recommended looking at what you enjoy are right: it is a good place to start. Another thing I find helpful is "Would I like it if someone did that to me?", which I suppose is basically the golden rule. I'm still working out my own structure and meaning after leaving the church just over a year ago. It's tough and scary, but it is possible.
I wish you luck in your search and I hope you find something that you are happy to live with.
TW

Shadowy Man

It was only a set up in the sense that I do hear people in this country making the claim that the Jewish/Christian/Muslim god is the same one. You claim that is not true. Who is the authority on this subject?

I am not Christian and never have been, so I don't really know the ins and outs of all the choices.

Sabine Grant

I do not see what my comment is proving here. Only that once we get to know each other better in this forum and on a more personal level, gratuitous evaluations of someone else's thoughts based on how we disagree with them cannot be justified anylonger.

The disagreement here between you and me is whether or not it is prudent to entrust a doctor with specialized knowledge to diagnose clinical depression and prescribe medication therapy. You as others do pertain to be able to detect clinical depression based on cyber communication. I am not aware of all of Eric's life circumstances and if some of his thoughts are the product of a succession of difficult circumstances back to back. I would not dare to to call someone for example who just went thru a divorce and a death in his family a " clinicaly depressed " individual because clinical depression does not depend on life circumstances but on chemical inbalance at the brain level. It is definitly a term used in medical diagnosis.
Some folks are depressed because of an overload of difficult circumstances. Others are depressed no matter what circumstances are.
I think for anyone to assume that Eric suffers of clinical depression based on cyber communication is rather daring....

And yes as a nurse I expected you to differenciate a medical diagnosis from a perception which IMO can contribute to more negative thinking into Eric's mind. He did react quite negatively to the mention of being medicated and if his post had been in Secular Life and Support as a general " how do I find a meaning to my life?" no doubt that moderators would protect his right to say " do not talk to me about being medicated". Unless this forum now claims to be a place of safe counseling where people will recieve free medical advice from non qualified individuals. I have seen enough christian sites pertaining to promote diets and other anti depressant measures " which work miracles"without proper medical referrals and support .....

Well... I am done stating my case and if you prefer Kally to keep your thoughts on the issue of saying " cheer up" as introductory words to my suggestions to Eric in answer to his questions in his OP, well... then have it all and eventualy you will move on too.

pz

I will charitably presume that your false accusations here are a consequence of your relatively poor grasp of the English language, and are not the result of simple dishonesty. No one has made a clinical diagnosis here. I just looked over the entire thread, and the closest I can find is one comment in which it was suggested that if depression was suspected, he ought to get professional help. That is not in any way "establishing a medical diagnosis on line".

Perhaps you are confused by the fact that people do reject your simplistic attempts to trivialize other's struggles with a glib "cheer up!" I assure you that they are not dismissing your suggestions because they are pretending to have a deeper, clinical understanding of Eric's problems, but are doing so because they know you fairly well, and your reputation for jejune banalities and petty christian shallowness precedes you.

Sabine Grant

No I never claimed that it was not true . Please post the phrase where I said it was not true that some christians claim that.
Which "subject" do you refer to? the one on christians claiming that there is only one God who covers all monotheistic religions? or the assumption you made that I deny the fact that some christians claim that it is the " same God for all".? please clarify.

As far as authority is concerned for the perception or choice of which God, believers follow their religious scriptures to evaluate which heaven and differences with other theologies. Do not tell me you did not know that! One will claim Qu'ram as authority another the Bible or any other religious text... Book of Mormon for example.
On the other hand, the mind who concieved the Pledge of Allegiance I do not believe had in focus religious pluralism...

Sabine Grant

PZ... did you miss that specific reference to " clinical depression" which I repeat is a medical diagnosis. Or does onyone want to argue that " clinical depression" is not a medical term used to diagnose a chemical inbalance. The word " clinical" is the key.