Talulah

Lately I have been reading "A History of God" by Karen Armstrong and I read some things that reminded me of something I had pondered on before. I seem to recall, (my memory was jogged by the book) that Augustine was rather sexually loose before becoming a Xtain and it being surmised that his wrestlings with what he viewed as his weakness was what lead to his hatred of women, and paved the way (what Tertullian and others hadn't paved already) for generations after him to label women as evil.

Supposedly he had had a hard time giving up sex. He thought that God had called for him personally to be celibate yet remained in 'sin' after he already was convinced of the truth of Xtain doctrine.

Here is a snippet from the book.

[begin dry humor]
I should wonder why anyone would listen to a 'man of God' who questioned God's motives for making half of the human race, not to mention the childbearing half.
[/end dry humor]

I am interested if anyone else has read things about Augustine along these lines and what their opinions were.

[ August 02, 2002: Message edited by: Talulah ]</p>

mac_philo

I haven't read the work you're quoting, but that's not the only way to interpret what Augustine is saying. He's not necessarily questioning 'God's Motives,' he's saying, 'look, given the urges of the average heterosexual male, god was probablys sex-positive.'

I had a professor in college who left seminary to become a philosopher. He was an atheist and he loved to paraphrase Augustine--"Dear Lord, please grant me the strength to reject temptation, but not just yet!"

I'm not sure how accurate that quotation is, but it sure fits his biography.

Talulah

"God grant me chastity, but not yet."


I don't know about the idea that God has always been sex-positive. Seems to me like Augustine thought that God created women in one of his own moments of weakness.

Bible Humper

Well, women are just homunculi crafted to serve us, not "really human" after all..... <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

Woman, "Human or Homunculus?", next on 60 Minutes.

bltl6

You could read "Confessions of Augestine" which is a personal journal he wrote. It is very honest and interesting to read.

Augistine of Hippo was a very intelligent man. He was really more of a philosopher than a theologian. This is why he asks so many questions and goes over and over issues. He's not "questioning God" per say, he's just asking questions and thinking out loud.

With many on this board critisizing Christians for not thinking and just accepting things, I'm surprized that Augistine isn't held in high regard.

If you are interested in some of his works, read his classic "City of God".

Skepticwithachainsaw

i thought the bit where he left his mistress and Child rather interesting considering the Catholics (and other Christians) attitude towards Single Mothers...

sighhswolf

I think it is interesting to note that Augustine
was convinced that we are not what we think we are, nor who conceptually we think we are in convictions.
That our own self image is usually a false perception, and we lie to ourselves, and believe our own lies.

Wolf

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: sighhswolf ]</p>

Walter_Mitty

[ August 07, 2002: Message edited by: Bibliophile ]</p>

Eudaimonist

I rarely agree with Augustine, but he was clearly a genius. So was Thomas Aquinas.

lpetrich

Uta Ranke-Heinemann's book "Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven" is a good read on the Christian Church's attitude toward sexuality for most of its history -- being fundamentally suspiciously, but grudgingly tolerating it only to produce children inside of an authorized marriage.

Also, St. Augustine devotes some chapters of his Confessions to moaning and groaning over a terrible sin he had once committed: as a little boy, he and some other boys had stolen some pears.

Mohandas Gandhi had also done something like that, at least according to Bertrand Russell.