Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bill Snedden · 03-04-2003, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreggLD1
And the writers of Genesis certainly agreed with you, Lob, because that's exactly what they said God did--it's right there in the first chapter!

The exact quote would be:

Quote:

Genesis 1:27-31
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.
And God blessed them, and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth."
And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food.
And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food." And it was so.
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day.

emphasis added

Regards,

Bill Snedden

Vinnie · 03-04-2003, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregg
Kevin, you should be ashamed of yourself! Don't you know your Bible? Hint: Genesis, chapter 1!

Gregg

Why? Whats in cha?ter 1? The fall occurs in 3

Ab_Normal · 03-04-2003, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Captain Pedantic
Condemning my sins in this case is condemning my very person. Christian "Ex-Gay" groups would ask me to alter my very self. I am that sin they hate. One cannot separate me from myself.

:notworthy :notworthy Your eloquence quite overwhelms me!

Ensign Steve · 03-04-2003, 02:30 PM

I always wondered a couple of things on this topic. One, if homosexuality is a sin, and god hates sin, why did my girlfriend get kicked out of her mother's home for being gay, while her twin sister lives in that same home with a man she is not married to and who is not the father of her child? In other words, why does god hate the sin of homosexuality more than the sin of sex out of wedlock? Why does god hate the sin of homosexuality more than he hates the sins of wearing mixed fibers, cutting the corners of beards, and boiling kid goats in their mothers' milk?

After much reflection on these issues, I came to a realization. Xians have put the cart in front of the horse. I guess we have become so used to them arguing in circles that we didn't even notice this one. People hate and fear homosexuals. But in order to justify that hate and fear, they had to make us believe that god hates and fears homosexuals. So they point to that little verse in the bible that says that it is wrong. You know, the one in that list of rules that says men can't lay with other men, or wear mixed fibers, or cut the corners of their beards. And they say "See! There it is! I told you it was wrong and evil and sinful!"

Long story short, they don't hate and fear it because it is sinful. It is sinful simply because they hate and fear it.

I am so happy I was not born into a fundie xian family, even though my poor girlfriend was.

Very heartbreaking.

Jen

Bree · 03-05-2003, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lobstrosity
Spurly's view is that a homosexual, even if he doesn't believe in hell (or maybe especially if he doesn't believe in hell), is still in danger. The consequences of homosexuality, to Spurly, is eternal damnation of your immortal soul--this is the danger I think Spurly is representing by his running-with-a-knife analogy.

Thanks for the clarification Lobstrosity.

Spurly and his gaggle of like-minded Christians can be worried about my immortal soul all they want, if that's how they feel they best spend their free time. However, why do they feel the need to TELL ME about it? I didn't ask for their feedback.

Godless Sodomite · 03-05-2003, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree
Thanks for the clarification Lobstrosity.

Spurly and his gaggle of like-minded Christians can be worried about my immortal soul all they want, if that's how they feel they best spend their free time. However, why do they feel the need to TELL ME about it? I didn't ask for their feedback.

This is something I never understood either. Especially in light of the fact that when they say: "Don't fuck!" and I reply: "Fuck You!" they get offended. If you didn't want me to tell you how full of shit your religion is, you shouldn't have brought up the subject in the first place.

Their god is imaginary so there's no reason I should care one way or the other what they say their imaginary friend feels about me. It only becomes an issue when they start to dictate public policy based on their superstitions; or when they tell me about it as if I had any interest in what they have to say. I'm so sick to death of KKKristians acting as if I need their permission to say or do anything. Spurly has been on my ignore list since we've had that option. I've read his views, concluded they have nothing to do with me, didn't interest me, and I've stopped reading them.

-Jerry

GreggLD1 · 03-06-2003, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gregg
Kevin, you should be ashamed of yourself! Don't you know your Bible? Hint: Genesis, chapter 1!

Gregg

Kevin, are you still around?

I was wondering how you reconcile your belief that there were carnivores before the Fall with Genesis 1:30.

Gregg

beth · 03-06-2003, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spurly
I've been in church since I was born, and I have never heard anyone teach anything close to hating homosexuals or disliking homosexuals.

What was I taught. That sin separates us from God. That the goal of life is to be close to God - to know him more (which is one of the pillars on which my life is built). When we have sin in our life, we need to identify it, and defeat it through the power of the spirit. Doesn't matter what the sin is, the solution is the same. It can be lying, deceit, fits of rage, any sex outside of the marriage covenant, or a multitude of other things.

Instead of being taught to hate, we were taught to love others. Love them where they are, and love them enough to help them get close to God.

I have no problem hanging out with someone who is gay. But I will let them know that God loves them while I am with them. And I will let God show that love to them through me.

Kevin

Looks like you and I went to a different church. The Bible itself teaches intolerance and encourages violence toward gays. The love and acceptance that I had for gays while I was a Christian came from within myself. It was definitly not taught by the church.

spurly · 03-06-2003, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by GreggLD1
Kevin, are you still around?

I was wondering how you reconcile your belief that there were carnivores before the Fall with Genesis 1:30.

Gregg

Gregg,

Thanks for asking. To be honest I've never much considered the fact that there were only vegeterians before the fall. It has never been an important issue, so I haven't studied it much.

Yes, it says God gave them every green plant for food, but it also says that species where created that were carnivorous species. Does the green plants for food mean that the ones at the bottom levels of the food chain got their energy from there, but the ones at the top fed on ones who got their energy from plants? I don't know. I will have to look into this some more some time.

Thanks,

Kevin

Ensign Steve · 03-06-2003, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by spurly
It has never been an important issue, so I haven't studied it much.

Maybe because people don't hate and fear vegetarians (or carnivores for that matter)?

Kevin, sorry to jump in completely non-sequitor on your topic, which has gone down a different tangent than the original gay issue, but I couldn't resist pointing that out. It helps to illustrate my point that (some) Christians use the Bible only as it suits them, to reinforce the opinions they already hold, while claiming that they hold those opinions because it's in the Bible.

Jen

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03-04-2003, 02:30 PM	#84
Ensign Steve Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Augusta, Georgia, United States Posts: 1,235	I always wondered a couple of things on this topic. One, if homosexuality is a sin, and god hates sin, why did my girlfriend get kicked out of her mother's home for being gay, while her twin sister lives in that same home with a man she is not married to and who is not the father of her child? In other words, why does god hate the sin of homosexuality more than the sin of sex out of wedlock? Why does god hate the sin of homosexuality more than he hates the sins of wearing mixed fibers, cutting the corners of beards, and boiling kid goats in their mothers' milk? After much reflection on these issues, I came to a realization. Xians have put the cart in front of the horse. I guess we have become so used to them arguing in circles that we didn't even notice this one. People hate and fear homosexuals. But in order to justify that hate and fear, they had to make us believe that god hates and fears homosexuals. So they point to that little verse in the bible that says that it is wrong. You know, the one in that list of rules that says men can't lay with other men, or wear mixed fibers, or cut the corners of their beards. And they say "See! There it is! I told you it was wrong and evil and sinful!" Long story short, they don't hate and fear it because it is sinful. It is sinful simply because they hate and fear it. I am so happy I was not born into a fundie xian family, even though my poor girlfriend was. Very heartbreaking. Jen

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