Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Calzaer · 06-14-2003, 11:50 AM

For the non-believer, how do you explain the feeling that having a direct relationship with Vishnu, offers?

There is much love, acceptance, safety, warmth, relationship, love and on and on....

Are millions of people just imaging these feelings?

ComestibleVenom · 06-14-2003, 11:53 AM

No, the feeling that Vishnu worship gives is real.

Therefore the feeling is a good indication of Vishnu's existence.

Therefore Vishnu exists.

The same does not apply to Christian's warm-fuzzy feeling. That's simply a feeling born of expectations, social pressures and focused effort to reach an altered state of consciousness.

ComestibleVenom · 06-14-2003, 11:54 AM

Btw,

Who actually believes that it is not possible to have a warm (or frightening, or angry, or apathetic) relationship with a fictional character of your own imagination? Please, it's so obviously possible I don't understand why people act as though it's not.

Disciple · 06-14-2003, 12:04 PM

This one made me smile

The feeling lent by believing in Vishnu, or Allah or any of the other "Gods", is the resultant feeling you get whilst believing in a God or creator and the trust, love and acceptance that comes with that.

Whilst we may feel these feelings, they are of a similar ilk to the man who thinks he loves a girl, only to find that he does not. They appear real and are the result of aspiring toward the divine. These believers of other religions almost have it. They are looking upwards and that is good, but they are looking in slightly the wrong direction. Christ is the door way to eternity...

Calzaer · 06-14-2003, 12:45 PM

Disciple:

You have two tasks:
(A) Prove god exists
(B) Prove YOUR god exists.

You may not assume one in proving the other.

Considering Vishnu has been around a hell of a lot longer than Christ, has more holy books (containing more accurate histories that can be verified) and has just as much other evidence for his existence (read: none), you've given no good reason to believe in your fantasy over anybody else's fantasy.

Waning Moon Conrad · 06-14-2003, 03:16 PM

Oh yes, it's all perfectly true!

Vishnu is the ONLY WAY TO BRAHMA.

He is also one of the slightly more scenic paths to Kali.

I know this for a fact because I believe it and it feels so fabulously peaceful when I stop shouting to myself that it's true, it's true, it's true, it's true, it's goddam true!

Besides, there's a book that says it's true and I know that the book is true because it says in that same book that you'll come back as a hermit crab if you don't believe it.

Give it a chance people. Open yourselves up. Deep down you know it's true.

JEST2ASK · 06-14-2003, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ComestibleVenom
Btw,

Who actually believes that it is not possible to have a warm (or frightening, or angry, or apathetic) relationship with a fictional character of your own imagination? Please, it's so obviously possible I don't understand why people act as though it's not.

It is also very possible to have a warm (

) relationship of an imaginary nature with a very real person

as long as you don't violate the restaining order

Quote:

Originally posted by Disciple

These believers of other religions almost have it. They are looking upwards and that is good, but they are looking in slightly the wrong direction. Christ is the door way to eternity...

Could you please tell me how to judge these conflicting claims ...
what would be a foolproof method.

goat37 · 06-14-2003, 07:56 PM

The problem with the whole scenario is exactly what happened to Greek and Roman mythology, the egyptian religion etc..

Vishnu and that religion have been around much MUCH longer than christianity. And what their religion states sounds a little hokey (the whole animal thing, 8 arms etc) because we live in a more modern time that makes such things laughable. (the modern living counties anyway, I would hardly call the middle east or India, and most of Africa living in modern times)

We are getting to that point with Chrsitianity now, as is noted on this board. The Christians think that the idea of vishnu, and buddha are wrong because they don't even sound halfway believable. Christianity is technically the newest 'religion' and so that is why it caught on so well because it explained everything in a more modern way.

But now, some 2000 years later, a lot of us are looking at Christianity as a bit hokey and laughable. (a flood that covered the earth, even though there isn't enough water on the face of the planet to do so, a talking snake and the evil apple etc...) Christians don't understand why God and the Bible as a whole are made fun of now, especially in a lot of Europe, they are just like those that believe in Vishnu, and Allah, Buddha, etc...

Sooner or later, a new religion (widespead religion, scientology nor mormonism don't really count, yet, at least.) will come along and give an even more modern explanation of how the universe and humans came to be. Wait a minute, it's here now, it's called science and evolution!!!!! The only thing, is that we haven't perfected it yet. We are still trying to connect general relativity and quantum mechanics to make the 'theory of everything', let's just call it a work in progress, shall we?

And as any advocate of any new belief would do, I would like you all to see it my way. Get with the times, see what is in front of you, and just accept it. Just because you read about it in a book that is 2000 years old, doesn't make it true.

ComestibleVenom · 06-14-2003, 10:56 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JEST2ASK
It is also very possible to have a warm ( ) relationship of an imaginary nature with a very real person

as long as you don't violate the restaining order

QUOTE]

*lol* How could I forget? Of course, sometimes the relationship is not so out of plausibility, and you end up never noticing the subtle but pervasive misconceptions you perpetuate about how you interact.

haverbob · 06-16-2003, 06:06 AM

I thought I explained to you that you do not love God. I never got a response to that. Why are you wasting your time on this board? You should be working on a way to REALLY love God. Until then, it is pointless for you to speak here, let alone preach here. Imagine that, someone who doesn't love God telling everyone else to do so.

To the Vishnus. If your religion really took you to where you think it takes you, you wouldn't be going through the silly motions of comparing it to Christianity. It isn't until you realize that ALL opinions are false, that you will be where you think you are. So stop making comparisons (opinions). You're cheating yourself out of reality.

06-14-2003, 11:50 AM	#1
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	Vishnu is felt For the non-believer, how do you explain the feeling that having a direct relationship with Vishnu, offers? There is much love, acceptance, safety, warmth, relationship, love and on and on.... Are millions of people just imaging these feelings?

06-16-2003, 06:06 AM	#10
haverbob Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,771	to Disciple I thought I explained to you that you do not love God. I never got a response to that. Why are you wasting your time on this board? You should be working on a way to REALLY love God. Until then, it is pointless for you to speak here, let alone preach here. Imagine that, someone who doesn't love God telling everyone else to do so. To the Vishnus. If your religion really took you to where you think it takes you, you wouldn't be going through the silly motions of comparing it to Christianity. It isn't until you realize that ALL opinions are false, that you will be where you think you are. So stop making comparisons (opinions). You're cheating yourself out of reality.

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06-14-2003, 11:53 AM	#2
ComestibleVenom Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,320	No, the feeling that Vishnu worship gives is real. Therefore the feeling is a good indication of Vishnu's existence. Therefore Vishnu exists. The same does not apply to Christian's warm-fuzzy feeling. That's simply a feeling born of expectations, social pressures and focused effort to reach an altered state of consciousness.

06-14-2003, 11:54 AM	#3
ComestibleVenom Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,320	Btw, Who actually believes that it is not possible to have a warm (or frightening, or angry, or apathetic) relationship with a fictional character of your own imagination? Please, it's so obviously possible I don't understand why people act as though it's not.

06-14-2003, 12:04 PM	#4
Disciple Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: UK Posts: 22	This one made me smile The feeling lent by believing in Vishnu, or Allah or any of the other "Gods", is the resultant feeling you get whilst believing in a God or creator and the trust, love and acceptance that comes with that. Whilst we may feel these feelings, they are of a similar ilk to the man who thinks he loves a girl, only to find that he does not. They appear real and are the result of aspiring toward the divine. These believers of other religions almost have it. They are looking upwards and that is good, but they are looking in slightly the wrong direction. Christ is the door way to eternity...

06-14-2003, 12:45 PM	#5
Calzaer Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Ohio Posts: 2,762	Disciple: You have two tasks: (A) Prove god exists (B) Prove YOUR god exists. You may not assume one in proving the other. Considering Vishnu has been around a hell of a lot longer than Christ, has more holy books (containing more accurate histories that can be verified) and has just as much other evidence for his existence (read: none), you've given no good reason to believe in your fantasy over anybody else's fantasy.

06-14-2003, 03:16 PM	#6
Waning Moon Conrad Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Victoria. Australia Posts: 1,417	Oh yes, it's all perfectly true! Vishnu is the ONLY WAY TO BRAHMA. He is also one of the slightly more scenic paths to Kali. I know this for a fact because I believe it and it feels so fabulously peaceful when I stop shouting to myself that it's true, it's true, it's true, it's true, it's goddam true! Besides, there's a book that says it's true and I know that the book is true because it says in that same book that you'll come back as a hermit crab if you don't believe it. Give it a chance people. Open yourselves up. Deep down you know it's true.

06-14-2003, 07:56 PM	#8
goat37 Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 37	The problem with the whole scenario is exactly what happened to Greek and Roman mythology, the egyptian religion etc.. Vishnu and that religion have been around much MUCH longer than christianity. And what their religion states sounds a little hokey (the whole animal thing, 8 arms etc) because we live in a more modern time that makes such things laughable. (the modern living counties anyway, I would hardly call the middle east or India, and most of Africa living in modern times) We are getting to that point with Chrsitianity now, as is noted on this board. The Christians think that the idea of vishnu, and buddha are wrong because they don't even sound halfway believable. Christianity is technically the newest 'religion' and so that is why it caught on so well because it explained everything in a more modern way. But now, some 2000 years later, a lot of us are looking at Christianity as a bit hokey and laughable. (a flood that covered the earth, even though there isn't enough water on the face of the planet to do so, a talking snake and the evil apple etc...) Christians don't understand why God and the Bible as a whole are made fun of now, especially in a lot of Europe, they are just like those that believe in Vishnu, and Allah, Buddha, etc... Sooner or later, a new religion (widespead religion, scientology nor mormonism don't really count, yet, at least.) will come along and give an even more modern explanation of how the universe and humans came to be. Wait a minute, it's here now, it's called science and evolution!!!!! The only thing, is that we haven't perfected it yet. We are still trying to connect general relativity and quantum mechanics to make the 'theory of everything', let's just call it a work in progress, shall we? And as any advocate of any new belief would do, I would like you all to see it my way. Get with the times, see what is in front of you, and just accept it. Just because you read about it in a book that is 2000 years old, doesn't make it true.

06-14-2003, 10:56 PM	#9
ComestibleVenom Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 2,320	[QUOTE]Originally posted by JEST2ASK It is also very possible to have a warm ( ) relationship of an imaginary nature with a very real person as long as you don't violate the restaining order QUOTE] lol How could I forget? Of course, sometimes the relationship is not so out of plausibility, and you end up never noticing the subtle but pervasive misconceptions you perpetuate about how you interact.

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