Ganymede

If God created the universe and everything in it, he must have had good reason to do so - but what was it?

If God created humanity, was it just to that he would have someone to worship him? Is he really that egocentric?

If it is Gods desire that human souls should end up in heaven, why did he not just cut out the earthly bit and send us directly there.

Whats the point of all this? Why did God bother?

David

christ-on-a-stick

A recent thread on this very subject.

Not that we got it all figured out or anything (I mean other than the thing about it all obviously being a myth and all).

But as far as the hypothetical whys... well, it doesn't make any sense. Most myths don't really stand up to rational scrutiny.

Amos

That is why it is called "myth" and is not supposed to stand up to rational scrutiny. An argument can be made that rational scrutiny in life is needed because we don't understand myth.

As it was said about Newton: "All was dark and hid by night, God said 'let Newton be' and all was light."

jolene555

no one can honestly answer those questions, unless in just telling you what they believe. i "believe" that we exist because he wanted to share his love. the "earthly bit" is how we show him our love for him, how we live our lives. if you recall, he had angels first and that went crazy because one thought he could be like god. big no no. we are humans, and he wants to make sure we know it or else. this answer could go onfor pages, but i'll spare y'all

-jo

WWSD

We have to presuppose the existence of a creator god in order to answer these questions. Which leaves a lot of wiggle room if you enjoy speculating on the motivations of a being that supposedly transcends human knowledge.

If we assume that the god in question is the xtian god, we have to go back to the only evidence that this god supposedly left us to understand his motivations for creation.

When I read the bible creation myth, I find no explicit motivation at all. Thus, we have to sort of "psychologize" the god in this story to determine exactly what he was up to when he decided to create everything.

This is obviously just a bunch of directionless speculation, on our part as well as on the part of theists.

We don't believe in that god in the first place, and they surely cannot claim to know the mind of thier god can they?

I'm not clear on why YHWH would have created the earth. He does so, repents of it's inhabitants, kills 99.99999999999% of them, and then goes on to harden the hearts of a lot more of them. Meanwhile he keeps on commanding his chosen people to slaughter all of the others that he supposedly is responsible for creating.

It seems like the work of a madman!!

Then we are told to play a rather protracted salvation game, and are threatened with the concept of eternal suffering.

It seems that an infinite, omnipotenet, omniscient being would have simply done away with such a game, but if we want motivations, we have to assume that this game is just that, a big game, and any god who cretaed it did so for his own enjoyment.

This is nowhere near to the concept of a loving fatherlike god.

Additionally, we ascribe human traits to a being that has been defined further nd further away from anything even remotly recognizeable as human.

It boggle the mind that this being would want to share anything with anyone, especially limited, flawed creatures which he created and condemned.

Why we have to play the salvation game to demonstrate love is also a rather bizarre concept to me. If I want someone to demonstrate their love for me, I expect them to cook dinner once in a while or simply tell me so. Furthermore if they don't love me, I don't inflict massive suffering on them as a result. Only a very disturbed person would do that IMO.

jolene555 said:

if you recall, he had angels first and that went crazy because one thought he could be like god. big no no. we are humans, and he wants to make sure we know it or else. this answer could go onfor pages, but i'll spare y'all

But an omniscient god must have known that the angel he was about to create would rebel. So surely he must have had a reason for creating this angel anyway.
I have serious issues with someone who answers that god created satan becasue he loved him despite knowing that he would rebel. He then knew that satan would be eternally damned and would suffer. This does not speak of love to me. In fact, this is jsut plain odd.

Of course, this diety has a strange, and rather irrational way of displaying love towards his creations. One which I find contradictory to the claim that we are modeled in his image.

Why does my sense of love seem much more fair and just than god's?

Why does my bahavior towards other humans seem more fair and just than god's?

I would venture to say that this is because that god probably doesn't exist in the first place.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by jolene555
no one can honestly answer those questions, unless in just telling you what they believe. i "believe" that we exist because he wanted to share his love.

Genuine love isn't something that can be forced on people; you cannot tell someone to accept your love "or else". This god comes off as more of an abusive husband who holds a gun to his wife's head and says that he loves her, and she had better love him right back.

the "earthly bit" is how we show him our love for him, how we live our lives.

Even if this god actually existed, what makes him deserving of love? He comes off as a butcher with a foreskin fetish in the bible.

if you recall, he had angels first and that went crazy because one thought he could be like god. big no no.

Why is this a "big no no"? Most children want to be just like their parents. Did god believe that the universe was only big enough for just one of him?

we are humans, and he wants to make sure we know it or else.

Or else what?

jolene555

forgive me?? i think i made it quite clear that i was posting what i BELIEVE. it's a faith thing, ya know?? or maybe . . . yah, i guess you don't know. you can question it, attack it, call my god a butcher, but i am still gonna believe it at the end of the day. so please, i beg you, don't waste your time.

-jo

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by jolene555
forgive me??

Why, what did you do?

i think i made it quite clear that i was posting what i BELIEVE.

Uh-huh... and this somehow means that it is inappropriate to comment on what you posted?

it's a faith thing, ya know??

Ah know?? Why yah, ah gess ah dew know.

or maybe . . . yah, i guess you don't know.

Yah, let's make up our minds as to what ah dew or dew not know.

you can question it, attack it, call my god a butcher,

I can? Why, thank you! Were there any other names you thought were suitable for a creature which slaughtered the entire human population of the world except for one family, according to the bible?

but i am still gonna believe it at the end of the day.

You don't say! Seriously, though, what makes you think that I intended to deconvert you or even slightly change your mind? I have no interest in that - you can believe that you're standing on your head and singing Martian lullabies for all I care.

so please, i beg you, don't waste your time.

You can beg as much as you like, but I don't consider taking apart unreasonable, ludicrous arguments to be a waste of time. I do note, by the way, that you addressed none of the points I made or the questions I asked. It is never a waste of time to see yet another theist stymied.

HelenM

jo, I'm not sure what you expected - this is a discussion board so bear in mind that if you post something people may well want to discuss what you said, with you.

Not only that, it's a secular discussion board so it's very likely that any statements of Christian belief posted here are going to be challenged. Strongly.

You're welcome to stay and post more but if it bothers you when people do what this board is here for, maybe it's not the right place for you.

Helen

christ-on-a-stick

Dear Jolene,

Why are on earth are you on a message board called "Internet Infidels *Discussion* Board" if you've locked your mind so tightly shut that nothing anybody says is going to make you THINK about what you "believe"?

Browse around a bit (especially in the upper forums) and you'll find that there are many, many intelligent and knowledgeable people here, largely ex-believers, and most with a more comprehensive knowledge of the bible than the everyday Christian.

If you're interested in discussing and maybe even learning, this is a great place. Simply stating "what you believe" and not wanting to hear any questions or objections about it isn't going to do much but get you a lot of and (IMHO of course )

Lauri