HelenM

This topic was being discussed in the thread: Babies in day care

Here's one post from that thread:

Today I was able to get the book out of the library upon which I believe the above paper's comments were based, i.e. What You Can Change & What You Can't by Martin Seligman.

The section where he writes about his childhood sexual abuse, as I thought, is part of a chapter in which he's emphasizing that our childhood experiences do not have to dictate our adult lives and in which he points out that some forms of therapy end up adding to the trauma of difficult childhood experiences rather than healing it.

In that context he speaks of his own experiences at age 9, which evidently involved talking to and being hugged and kissed by a newspaper salesperson he walked by on the way to school. This continued for a while, until, he says, the police and/or his parents quietly did something so the man was relocated off Seligman's way to school. Seligman writes with approval of how his parents didn't over-interrogate him about his experiences or make more of them than appropriate.

I'm confused as to why the paper says Seligman writes of his experiences positively because I don't see that in the section. What he writes positively about is his parents approach to dealing with them. Not about the experiences per se. Maybe there's more about this in the book somewhere but if so, I haven't found it. I would have thought it would have been here, where he describes the experience in detail, if anywhere.

Anyway, the section in Seligman's book is way too long for me to quote in its entirety but perhaps the beginning will be of interest to the open-minded folks here:

"There is one childhood trauma that is often singled out as a special destroyer of adult mental health: sexual abuse. What I am about to say on this subject can easily be misinterpreted, misquoted, and wrenched out of context. So this preface: I believe sexual abuse is evil. It should be condemned and punished. Abused children and adults surviviors need help, but help that works -- not "pop psychology" help.

Having read this I continue to believe that Seligman's position on childhood sexual abuse doesn't constitute sufficient reason to lose all faith in his advice and teachings in general, nor in the American Psychological Association for electing him President.

Helen

brighid

Helen,

Thank you VERY much for taking the time to acquire the book, research the quote and post your findings here! It is important that information to be taken in proper context and not twisted to fit any agenda. I truly appreciate your efforts.

Brighid

Daleth

Well done, Helen. Thanks so much for taking the time track this down. I hope this will put the issue to rest.

Dal

yguy

"So this preface: I believe sexual abuse is evil. It should be condemned and punished."

This statement is meaningless if the contact between Seligman and the newspaper man had sexual undertones and Seligman nevertheless failed to see it as abuse. While what is presented here doesn't appear to support the interpretation given by Rind et al, neither does it contradict that interpretation, it seems to me.

Family Man

From what Helen says, Seligman does appear to consider what happened to him as child abuse, just not the defining moment of his life.

But not having read it myself, I'll have to ask Helen to confirm this judgement.

brighid

Why don't you go and read the book. There is nothing here to indicate that he didn't see it as abuse, but rather that the way his parents handled the situation led to a more positive outcome then had they overreacted.

Brighid

Fr.Andrew

(Fr Andrew): I've long held this position with respect to CSA...i.e., that the reaction to it...the guilt and shame associated with it by our society...is oftentimes more damaging to the child than the sexual contact itself had been. And I lay the blame for the over-reaction squarely on the morbid view of sex foisted on us by our (Judeo-Christian) heritage.

The notion that sexual contact between adults and children is always abusive is incorrect, and studies show that a great many adults who have had childhood inter-generational sexual experiences see them in a positive light.

Seigelman writes:
"What I am about to say on this subject can easily be misinterpreted, misquoted, and wrenched out of context. So this preface: I believe sexual abuse is evil. It should be condemned and punished. Abused children and adults surviviors need help, but help that works -- not "pop psychology" help".
(Fr Andrew): Good luck. I've tried to broach this subject many times and on several boards (this one included) with the same caveat--that I have no sympathy with rapists or those who abuse children, especially--I simply want to raise awareness about what may be a greater harm. A wasted effort. I've been misinterpreted, misquoted and what I've said has been wrenched out of context by those unable to see me as more than a pedophile apologist. I've found few people able to discuss the issue rationally.

Thanks for the research, HelenM.

brighid

Father Andrew,

It is a very difficult subject to discuss rationally. Normally, I stay out of those discussions because of my own history of abuse. I can't say that I can agree with anyone who feels that sexual contact with a child (particularly young children) is positive, or good.

I do agree that Judeo-Christian sexual points of view do more harm to our society then good. I am sure that plays into harm of children and adults in general.

I appreciate Siegleman's pov because he is attempting to demonstrate a way to handle this awful situation that may be best for a child who experienced abuse by an adult. It really depends on the child and the situation involving the abuse. Obviously some stories are horrific and the damage done to the child is undeniable.

I would say, at least from what I know and from what I have experienced in my own childhood that I am in agreement with Siegelman.

I think the discussion of pedophilia is completely different though, but I am truly not interested in discussing that topic.

Brighid

yguy

Helen already has, and has apparently found nothing to answer my objections beyond what could easily be a politically correct gesture of appeasement.

Or that he did. It is utterly inconclusive. For all I know, Seligman believes in his heart of hearts that 9 year olds are capable of meaningful consent to sexual activity with adults.

I don't really see any resolution to this in my mind outside of Seligman addressing the quote from the Rind study directly.

yguy

Were I a homosexual, I would be less than appreciative of ideological support from one who harbors such grotesque facscimiles of rational thought, to say the least.