Rich Brown

Something that has really irked me for some time is the fact that American tax dollars are spent directly on the advancement of religion in the form of military chaplains and chapels.

This feeling was brought to the forefront yesterday as I drove to work at Ramstein Air Base, Germany. I heard the following radio bit on a U.S. Government radio station delivered by an active duty army Captain, who is paid by the government (i.e. taxpayers like me) specifically to deliver such theistic rantings. If there is a more blatant example of a violation of seperation of church and state, I would like to see it. Here are your tax dollars at work:

AFN Europe

The very fact that I as an atheist and an American can be forced to pay for this sort of broadcast irritates me to no end.

The argument that chaplains in the military are necessary to provide military members with a conduit to exercise their right to free exercise of religion under the first amendment does not hold water. Every day in the Stars and Stripes and every week in the base newspaper there are full-page ads for private, english-speaking congregations off-base for any military member to attend. Believe me, it is not like there is no option to government supplied churches because we live overseas. Their right to free exercise would in no way be infringed if the government stopped building chapels and hiring preachers. And the availibilty of non-government churches is not unique to Ramstein. I have been in the military now for 18 years and I have lived on bases in Korea, Japan, and Europe. No matter where I have been (20+ countries in all) there are American denominations setting up a private churches near the military installations.

This is as it should be. If a religious institution wishes to be in a particular area, let them fund their own way. The military should get out of the chaplain business completely. Leave the churches out there to build their own churches for their own flocks and stop using my tax dollars to prop up religion.

Rich

beekay

I was in the Marine Corps for 12 years, so I know what you are talking about!

Every single military ceremony and event (and there are zillions every damn year) has a chaplain providing an invocation of some type. Got a family problem? You are sent to the chaplain. Potential suicide case on our hands? Get the chaplain right away! It is just part of military life; no one dares question it.

As a side note ... on all ID tags (dog tags) your religious preference is included. One guy had atheist on his and he caught all sorts of 'hell' for that. (I wan't full-blown atheist yet while in the military, so mine said "no preference")

No atheists in foxholes, right?

Rich Brown

I have "Atheist" on my dog tags. I haven't received any real negativity over it though. I do, however, love the funny looks of the chaplains on the deployment processing line! (For the non-military out there this is where you process out right before boarding the plane to deploy wherever. The chaplains are there to hand out bibles and to pray for you and other such nonsense.)

RufusAtticus

Rev. Joshua was in the military. At one point he considered going back as a Chaplin. I wonder what his opinion on this is?

~~RvFvS~~

Rich Brown

Just one more example of how firmly entwined are government and religion in the military can be found in official U.S. Air Force policy directives. Some excerpts from Air Force Policy Directive 52-1:

AFPD 52-1

And what is "spiritual health" as defined by the USAF? From the definitions section of the directive:
spirit is a primary element of reality?? I am an active duty member of the USAF. Does this doctrine statement really presume to tell me what I must believe in order to be "spirutally healthy"? Should the government really be issuing such proclimations? What about religious accommodation for the atheist? Well:
I guess the atheist need not apply.

Of course all of the prostelytizing is aimed at making me better able to fend off the enemies of America. I mean, aren't beliefs in invisible men and fairy tale demons central to my ability to perform my mission? Apparently that is the position of the USAF.
I firmly believe this is an inpermissible breach of seperation by the government. And yet, it continues unabated and wholly supported by the taxpayer. Even in Clinton's guidelines for religious practices in federal workplaces, the military was specifically exempted.

I just am amazed that we hear all the recent debate going on about the pledge ruling and the impermissibility of the government taking any stance on religion (pro or con) and yet we completely ignore the situation where the government directly promotes and funds religious belief. Why nothing on this? It should not be allowed to continue.

Rich

JohnR

I was in the Marine Corps in 67' and they would not let me put atheist or no preference. I was asked what my mother was and I said "Catholic" and that is whats on my dog tags.

Rev. Joshua

First of all the radio chaplain was way out of line. Unfortunately, with the desperate shortage of military chaplains more and more semi-literate evangelicals are slipping through the cracks.

According to the code of ethics for professional chaplains (military, hospital, public service, federal, penal, industrial, etc.), chaplains are never to proselytize. To serve as military chaplains they must have 90 semester hours of graduate-level education, and have met their denomination's standards for endorsement and ordination.

As an endorsed and ordained chaplain, I can attest to the rigor of the endorsement process in mainline denominations. Chaplains are expected to have completed challenging, supervised clinical training in the psychotherapeutic model. They are also expected to complete regular continuing education and meet other professional standards including providing spiritual guidance and psychotherapy to people from any faith community without proselytizing.

Like it or not, the vast majority of Americans believe that there is a spiritual component to our lives, and that professionals trained in spiritual care improve the quality of life for people who use their services.

Joshua

Javaman

When I was in the Air Force, my good friend and I were going to change our dog tags from "No Preference" to "Greek Pantheism" and "Roman Pantheism."

Unfortunately, we were too lazy to devote the time to learn about either belief system and, ultimately, too lazy to have the tags changed anyway.

yahwehyadayada

My husband was in the army in the 80's. He was asked what his religion was & he said "none". His dog tags were issued with "Catholic". He requested a second set of tags, & he eventually received them with "None". His view of religion in the military is that anyone who wanted to get out of a work detail only had to say they wanted to attend religious services.
I have heard that George Washington issued an order expressly forbidding military chaplains because they were divisive. Can anyone give me more information on this?

GaryP

I don't know if veterans are welcome to join but here is a site for Atheists in the military
maaf

[ July 04, 2002: Message edited by: GaryP ]