Treacle Worshipper

Given these 2 threads:
Slippery slope for abortion argument
and
Abortion contradiction
I thought I would throw this in.

A friend of mine, whom I shall refer to as N, is a devout life-long Christian. She once told me that, after she and her (equally devout) husband were married, she fell pregnant very quickly. A baby was very much not in their plans at the time. They prayed about the pregnancy, and N miscarried.

I don't know what exactly they prayed for and I don't know how late into the pregnancy the miscarriage was.

The point is, when N told me about this, she said it was an example of how god looks after people when they trust in him. Having a child would have been a major problem for N and her husband at that time, and god provided a miscarriage.

(They have since had 3 healthy kids, now in their mid-20s & older.)

Now, if we take N's view that god caused her miscarriage because a baby would have been a problem for them at that time, what is the difference between that and any other woman deciding to have an abortion because the timing of her pregnancy is seriously inconvenient?

(I personally assume there was a medical reason for the miscarriage & it was just a lucky coincidence.)
TW

Godless Dave

Assuming your friend thinks life begins at conception and abortion is murder, she is basically thanking god for killing her baby. Did they have a funeral for it?

Jamie_L

As always, this example is clearly selective recognition, and suffers from it's lack of universality. If God did look after people this way, there would be many fewer abortions, and a lot more happy miscarriages.

And how is God looking after all the devout people who want babies, but have miscarriages or stillbirths?

If God was really looking after these people, they never would have gotten pregnant in the first place.

God's "looking after people" appears to be so spotty and inconsistent as to be almost random.

Hmm....

Jamie

Treacle Worshipper

Yeah, this is what confused me. I would think most Xians would take that pov.

She didn't say so; I presume not. They didn't want this kid.


That had occured to me as well.
TW

brighid

She doesn’t believe in abortion, she and her husband prayed for god to “kill their baby” and later say this is an example of Gods love for those who believe in Him? WOW … now that is some serious mental gymnastics going on! It’s OK if they have God do it, but not their local abortion provider?

If they believe that God gave them this child, like all other children conceived in the world why would God agree to kill their baby for them later?

Unfortunately, she and her husband are attributing a very natural occurrence (miscarriage.) I don’t know the exact statistics off the top of my head but I believe something around 50% of all conceptions are naturally terminated by 12 –16 weeks?

How does she know it was God who answered her prayer? God gave them the child, didn’t he? Why would he then change his mind and kill the baby upon their request? Doesn’t that sound a little bit more like the work of Yahweh’s arch nemesis, Satan? Maybe Satan heard such a murderous prayer and thought he would oblige them and spite God for bringing forth another soul.

The things people will attribute to nothing … simply amazes me!

Brighid

Loren Pechtel

She prays for murder to be committed and it is. That's first degree murder in my book.

99Percent

If having a child would have been a major problem then why did God sent them one in the first place?

brighid

God could have easily have given them permission to use birth control to prevent Him having to kill an "innocent child" ( a phrase the anti-abortion crowd is so fond of.) If they weren't ready to have a child perhaps they should have abstained from sex! Isn't that what their Bible tells them, and what the Christian Reich/anti-abortion movement is pushing?

Why don't they see themselves as murderous, evil people for asking God to kill their baby? Oh, but I bet they don't phrase it like that when it comes to their situation ... perhaps they don't think of it like a baby ... I sure hope they don't EVER protest at an abortion clinic. If they do they should hold signs saying, "Pray to God and let him kill your baby! If you believe He will do it!"

Brighid

Treacle Worshipper

Brigid:
As I said in the OP, I'm not sure what exactly they prayed for - it may not have been "Please god, end this pregnancy."

My point exactly.

Presumably they considered it to be god because they got the outcome they desired.

I agree. But I really don't understand why god would allow them to conceive the child if he knew he was going to have to kill it.

Highly unlikely. People tend to consider the decision to have an abortion a private one in Britain.
TW

brighid

I think that is what is really wrong with their reasoning. If they are theists they believe God bequeathed this child to them for a purpose. They aren't ready for a baby yet, but failed to use any responsible birth control measures (even simply purchasing a kit to test her saliva to see if she is ovulating), conceived a "God given" child and then prayed to God to have a "miscarriage."

I understand that because they got the outcome they wanted they believe God answered their prayer, but don't they realize (according to their belief system) that they asked God to murder their unborn child that HE alleged predestined them to have? So why would HE answer a prayer for a miscarriage?

Brighid