Freethought & Rationalism Archive

AzJeff · 10-24-2002, 01:01 PM

*gag*

<a href="http://www.westword.com/issues/2002-10-17/feature.html/1/index.html" target="_blank">Biblically Correct Tours</a>

While reading the article, I felt like Homer Simpson in the "The Shining" Halloween special:

"Urge to kill rising. . . RISING. . . ."

Tom Sawyer · 10-24-2002, 01:27 PM

This guy is just a freak. Take for example:

Quote:

God told the Israelites when they moved into the land to wipe out everybody, to spare no one, not even their cattle. Why did he do that? I don't know. That's God's call. In that case, genocide was obviously the right thing to do, because God commanded it.

It's scary that they let this guy guide tours that include children.

RufusAtticus · 10-24-2002, 01:31 PM

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Their answer to everything is "Jesus did it."

Sound's like an event for Colorado Atheists and like minded Xians to go to. I could just see Scigirl leading a troup of infidels in a B.C. Tour asking questions that the tourguide can't answer....

Do you hear me Scigirl?

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

Valentine Pontifex · 10-24-2002, 01:45 PM

I read just the first page.

I did notice that the author of the article is confused on what "scientific creationism" is. That term is almost always used for YECism of the ICR/AiG variety. The article used the term in a way that suggested that they really meant "theistic evolution."

stryder2112 · 10-24-2002, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by AzJeff:
<strong>*gag*

<a href="http://www.westword.com/issues/2002-10-17/feature.html/1/index.html" target="_blank">Biblically Correct Tours</a></strong>

Holy shit! So that's who those idiots were! My wife and I were in Denver last year and we spent an afternoon at the Denver Museum of Nature & Science (a great museum, btw). Anyway, as we were snaking our way through the <a href="http://www.dmns.org/exhibits/prejour.htm" target="_blank">Prehistoric Journey</a> exhibit this guy several people behind us was explaining to some kids how the entire exhibit was a lie built to lead people from Chrisitianity.

I just wanted to smack him! Some other kids, not part of his group, whispered to their parents asking if what he said was true. These parents quietly tried to reassure their kids that dinosaurs really existed, etc. He also mostly ruined the exhibit for me because all I could think was: "Why the hell would you bring a group of kids to a natural history museum just to tell them that the exhibits were not only lies, but were lies crafted to damn them to hell."

Stryder

[ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: stryder2112 ]</p>

scigirl · 10-24-2002, 01:58 PM

Wha? Huh?

Quote:

The year was 1983, and Thorne wasn't buying this Big Bang bullshit for a second.

Way to swear for Jesus!

Quote:

Seventeen years later, Thorne wears a white lab coat to work. And he's still scribbling God's truth in the margins.

Hmm, maybe he should be wearing a white ... jacket?

Quote:

Despite the steel of his faith, in person Thorne comes off more like Friar Tuck than Torquemada the Inquisitor. Golden-haired, bright-eyed and quick to laugh, he's possessed of a glowing contentment with his place in this life and his prospects in the one to come. He drives a sports car and drinks Guinness stout.

Hmm, maybe someone needs to point him to the Bible passage about the likelihood of rich people getting into heaven. Well at least he drinks Guinness. He's got one good feature I guess.

Quote:

Places like science museums and zoos are the equivalent temples of our modern culture," he says. "They are where creatures are worshiped instead of their creator, where the work of the hands of man is worshiped over the work of God and where lies are worshiped as truth."

D'oh! I didn't think anyone was watching when I was doing that "T Rex worship dance." Guess I'll have to be more discrete next time.

Quote:

Over a three-day period in May that coincided with the Christian Home Educators of Colorado's "Day at the Capitol" conference, B.C. Tours shepherded more than 1,000 home-schooled children through the Denver Museum of Nature & Science, also known in a B.C. Tours pamphlet as the "Temple of Doom."

Hey I never remember seeing Indiana Jones there. Maybe I missed that exhibit??

Quote:

"They had these docents dressed up like Ramses, and these docents were supposed to answer questions in the voice of Ramses," says Jack. "So on our tour, we had our guides go and stand beside this Ramses, and we'd say to our groups, 'Now, if you guys want to bow down, go ahead, because this here is Ramses, and Ramses thought he was a god. So bow down if you want. But I won't bow down with you. I prefer to worship a living God, a God whose tomb is empty, not a false god whose tomb is filled with twenty rooms of treasure because he thought he could buy his way into paradise.'"

The volunteers didn't like that much, Jack recalls: "One of them called me a 'pompous ass.'" Thorne remembers being branded a "false prophet." ...Jack likens the reactions of the listeners to those of the Athenians when the Apostle Paul lectured in their Grecian temple: "Some believed; some wanted to hear more, and some hated Paul for what he said."

Delusions of grandeur perhaps?

Quote:

In 1993, when the traveling exhibit Aztec: The World of Montezuma came to the Denver Museum of Natural History, Jack led tours where he proclaimed loudly that Cortez was doing God's work by conquering and dismantling the Aztec culture, because the Aztecs worshiped false gods and practiced human sacrifice. "I suppose that wasn't very politically correct of me," he says. "But we're B.C., not P.C."

What an asshole! Are any Christians offended by this arrogant bastard (sorry Pomp for using your name in the same sentence as this guy).

Quote:

"We also talk a lot about how the American system of justice is based on the biblical system of justice,

Um no, we don't execute people for pretty much everything. OH WAIT - maybe Texas does!

Anyone who has read the Bible, and read the Bill of Rights, cannot possibly pretend they are similar. They are direct opposites!

Quote:

Jack says, "the impressionists began to say, 'Well, we're not going to paint this beautiful object as God made it. We're going to paint our individual impression of that object.' And that led to expressionism, which is ever further away from God, because it's painting pure feelings."

Great, now Monet is the anti-christ. Wonderful. And I thought he was just good at painting fuzzy flowers. I'm so glad Jack is here to ejukate me!

Quote:

The price of each biblically correct tour is $5 per person, with a $100 minimum -- cultural-temple admission fee not included.

100 minimum? Jesus would be so proud...

Quote:

"Evolution is killing our children; it is the death knell of our culture," says Jack. "It's not just a flawed idea; it's deadly. And if you don't believe me, let's just drive over to Columbine High School. Those two shooters learned their lessons well. Now hear me carefully: I am not saying that some teacher told them to go out and shoot somebody. However, from the day they entered the public school system until the day they died, they were told, in some form or another, that they were nothing more than mistakes of nature. That they were here on Earth purely by accident. That they were, really, nothing more than cosmic jokes. And they simply followed that worldview through to its logical conclusion."

He forgot to blame evolution on the slaugher of the native americans in 1850 also (like Hovind did).

Quote:

Why is it that when dinosaurs turn into frogs, we call that evolution, but when frogs turn into princes, we call it a fairy tale? You'll see from what we learn today that evolution is a fairy tale."

Can he at least get the order right? Didn't amphibians come before reptiles??

Quote:

Now, is it okay to be chained to a false belief?"

"No," the kids answered in unison.

"Is it okay to believe in evolution when it's not true?"

"No."

(His name is Robert Paulson...) Those poor kids!

Quote:

"So how do you think the giraffe got such a long neck?"

"Jesus!"

Why does the zebra have stripes?"

The kids defaulted to their standard answer: "Jesus!"

"Kind of," said Jack. "But not quite. The answer is really that the zebra has stripes to glorify God. God made all the animals for his own glory. They're for our enjoyment, but they're for His glory."

WOW I wonder if ARN has this amazing data for intelligent design. Maybe we should send it to them.

Quote:

"It is a bit of a mystery," admits Thorne, "but we do know from the Bible that people used to live for a long, long time. Eight hundred, nine hundred years was common. Now, what if the lizards of today lived that long, too? Can you imagine how big they would have been? That's one possible explanation."

But when you have faith, you don't need to nitpick little things like the fossil record.

HA HA HA.

Quote:

At Colorado Christian University, Thorne had a professor who believed that the first twelve chapters of Genesis were fabricated tales meant to teach us lessons about God and human nature. "He thought there really was no Garden of Eden," says Thorne, incredulously. "Well, I'm sorry, but if you take out the first twelve chapters of Genesis, you can pretty much throw the rest of Christian ideology away, because it's all founded on Genesis.

Why are people so stupid! He doesn't believe the earth is flat, does he? Does he abstain from shellfish?

That article made me laugh and cry at the same time. When will people get a clue????

scigirl

Mageth · 10-24-2002, 02:05 PM

Jack says, "the impressionists began to say, 'Well, we're not going to paint this beautiful object as God made it. We're going to paint our individual impression of that object.' And that led to expressionism, which is ever further away from God, because it's painting pure feelings."

Ridiculous, and of course not even close to being true. The proliferation of photography spelled the doom of realism in painting and the rise of abstract painting in all its forms.

lpetrich · 10-24-2002, 03:50 PM

As to amphibians and reptiles, reptiles are indeed descended from early amphibians. Frogs and salamanders are other descendants that have remained amphibians, though they had lost the scales that early amphibians had had. Frogs are also specialized for hopping, a feature lacking from early amphibians and most of their descendants.

Frogs, kangaroos, rabbits, and grasshoppers are all specialized for hopping, which might suggest a close relationship between them. But they have numerous features in common with all the non-hoppers, and the best-fit tree that includes them requires that hopping independently evolve 4 times, one for each of these groups.

Here's a nice site on what is descended from what: <a href="http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">University of California Museum of Paleontology</a>. I recommended it to everyone who wants a nice nontechnical guide to what's descended from what.

Camaban · 10-24-2002, 03:54 PM

Quote:

(His name is Robert Paulson...)

I'm getting pretty bloody sick of this.

Why are there so many bloody fundie crackpots called Robert or Bob???

I used to be PROUD of my name. but oooohhh, no, couldn't let dear old Bob (me in this case) be proud of something, could they?

IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY AGAINST ME!

Doubting Didymus · 10-24-2002, 03:59 PM

I knew it!

Camaban IS Bob!

I got suspicious when I noticed the pointy little black moustache.

10-24-2002, 01:01 PM	#1
AzJeff Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Phoenix, Az Posts: 413	Creationist Glurge in Colorado gag <a href="http://www.westword.com/issues/2002-10-17/feature.html/1/index.html" target="_blank">Biblically Correct Tours</a> While reading the article, I felt like Homer Simpson in the "The Shining" Halloween special: "Urge to kill rising. . . RISING. . . ."

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10-24-2002, 01:31 PM	#3
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> <img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" /> Their answer to everything is "Jesus did it." Sound's like an event for Colorado Atheists and like minded Xians to go to. I could just see Scigirl leading a troup of infidels in a B.C. Tour asking questions that the tourguide can't answer.... Do you hear me Scigirl? [ October 24, 2002: Message edited by: RufusAtticus ]</p>

10-24-2002, 01:45 PM	#4
Valentine Pontifex Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Orion Arm of the Milky Way Galaxy Posts: 3,092	I read just the first page. I did notice that the author of the article is confused on what "scientific creationism" is. That term is almost always used for YECism of the ICR/AiG variety. The article used the term in a way that suggested that they really meant "theistic evolution."

10-24-2002, 02:05 PM	#7
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Jack says, "the impressionists began to say, 'Well, we're not going to paint this beautiful object as God made it. We're going to paint our individual impression of that object.' And that led to expressionism, which is ever further away from God, because it's painting pure feelings." Ridiculous, and of course not even close to being true. The proliferation of photography spelled the doom of realism in painting and the rise of abstract painting in all its forms.

10-24-2002, 03:50 PM	#8
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	As to amphibians and reptiles, reptiles are indeed descended from early amphibians. Frogs and salamanders are other descendants that have remained amphibians, though they had lost the scales that early amphibians had had. Frogs are also specialized for hopping, a feature lacking from early amphibians and most of their descendants. Frogs, kangaroos, rabbits, and grasshoppers are all specialized for hopping, which might suggest a close relationship between them. But they have numerous features in common with all the non-hoppers, and the best-fit tree that includes them requires that hopping independently evolve 4 times, one for each of these groups. Here's a nice site on what is descended from what: <a href="http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu" target="_blank">University of California Museum of Paleontology</a>. I recommended it to everyone who wants a nice nontechnical guide to what's descended from what.

10-24-2002, 03:59 PM	#10
Doubting Didymus Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: East Coast. Australia. Posts: 5,455	I knew it! Camaban IS Bob! I got suspicious when I noticed the pointy little black moustache.

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