emphryio

Of course not always the case but:

1. The potential christian decides to become a christian because they want to be happy. This can take many numerous forms such as:

a. Just trying to follow tradition and fit in.
b. Loking for an answer to death.
c. An alcoholic on the edge of suicide grasping for anything.
d. Etc, etc.

Then....

2. In some "mystical" manner the christian "feels" the presence of God. Once again this can happen in an almost infinite number of ways such as:

a. A hallicination that is attributed to the Christian God.
b. Weak schizophrenia?
c. They try real hard to open their heart to him, and manage to "invent" him/her?
d. Etc, etc.

Then...

3. They now look for more or less empirical evidence of the existence of the (Christian) God such as:

a. Intelligent design
b. Miracles
c. Really silly coincedences
d. Metaphysical know-nothing crap (Like David Mathews)

Then you ask the Christian why they are a Christian and they either answer with #2 or maybe #3 (but virtually never will they admit #1) or they look at you perplexed because they really don't have a clue what their underlying motive is for doing much of anything.

[ July 07, 2002: Message edited by: emphryio ]</p>

luvluv

What makes you think that being a Christian makes you happier than you would be otherwise?

Bible Humper

Looking forward to an eternal life in a celestial utopia.

Believing that all of the down points of your life will be repaid with interest in the hereafter.

The hope that those who piss you off will really regret it while they sizzle in hell-fire.

Meeting deceased friends and family in utopia.

The fear of death at least somewhat eased.

Belief that a deity is watching over your life.

Basically Luvluv, Christianity offers relief from all fears, failures and insecurities if you have complete faith in its promises. How could this not result in more happiness?

emphryio

Of course, some people seek truth no matter where it leads, (instead of blindly having faith), because they think ultimately it is the key to the greatest happiness. (Such people aren't usually christians.)

Automaton

Freedom is true happiness, and religion is cognitive slavery.

Tercel

Is happiness not a sufficient reason in itself?
Some people would say "if it works for you, go for it": Thoughts?

David Gould

I think that happiness is reason enough (except if such happiness is at the expense of the happiness of others). I mainly debate religion because I enjoy it, for example.

An aquaintance of mine died yesterday in a car accident. This has rammed home to me the idea that as this life is short, happiness is the only true value.

Doing what makes you feel good should only make you feel guilty if it hurts others. And even this hurt should be looked at in a relative way - for example, knowledge that I am gay might cause some of my friends and family some uncomfortableness. However, telling them would make me happier. My judgement would be that telling them and thus causing their discomfort would be worth it.

Thus, Tercel, I applaud your Christianity if being a Christian makes you happy. My bet is, however, that you could be just as happy as an atheist and that the true causes of happiness are other people.

(in case there are any heartbroken women out there, I am not actually gay - it is just an example. Sorry to all the gay guys that I'm off the market...)

emphryio

I would think you could find greater happiness in not being a Christian. (I could be wrong). Personally I just can't lie to myself about something so fundamentally important. I think to lie to myself would cause a nagging unhappiness in the back of my mind. (Or even up near the front.) Of course I've never really tried lying to myself about something of such importance. It just seems like such an obviously bad idea. (Might lead to insanity, or stupidity?)

Radcliffe Emerson

Being a Christian never did one thing for me. I was a bible thumping believer to the point of fundamentalism.
Studying the facts and histories behind the bible itself and the area it was written in truly opened my eyes though, and I can honestly say I'm better off now than I was when I was relying on a Jesus who never responded with anything, because the response is not there.
To quote Thomas Jefferson: "I have found in Christianity not one redeeming feature."

Jamie_L

I'd like to dispute #1 in the OP.

Most Christians become Christians because they are indoctrinated into it at an early age. I would argue that these people are trained to have happy responses to Chrisianity. I think the number of people who reach adulthood as non-Christians and then convert is much smaller than the percentage of people who are raised in it.

People who are raised in it also give various answers to the "why do you believe" question, but most are again not strictly true. The truth is just "that's what I've always believed".

Secondly, if something makes you happy, fine. But that doesn't mean something else couldn't make you happier.

Jamie