Freethought & Rationalism Archive

RJS · 09-11-2002, 07:40 PM

Quote:

And that makes a difference how? Whoever Mrs. Beamer was addressing, it is still an example of the disgusting nature of Christian thought, which is what the original post was pointing out. I for one have compassion for Mrs. Beamer's situation; I have none for her religious beliefs. You may not agree with me, as is your right, but you have no right to make unreasonable inferences or introduce gratitious arguments that don't come close to addressing the point.

I am not sure the original poster shares your compassion - maybe you should take a shot at him too. If you dont like her faith, dont read her book or an article on her book. Certainly dont support a poster that says she is as bad as the hijackers of 9/11. Have you all lost your reason?

And if you want to argue about my unreasonable inferences, please be more specific, as I dont think I made any.

Family Man · 09-11-2002, 08:27 PM

I do not know that the original poster lacks compassion for Mrs. Beamer's situation or not. There is nothing in that post that justifies that inference. Nor was there any justification for your inference that he doesn't appreciate the efforts Todd Beamer made on the plane. His post was about the rather disgusting view she promoted and nothing more. I can understand your offense, but your reaction was off the point.

And he didn't say she was as bad as the hijackers. He said her thinking was as bad as the hijackers. There is a considerable difference between the two positions, and another unreasonable inference of yours.

And I, and everyone else, has the right to read anything we want, including things we disagree with. We are also free to criticize that which we disagree with. As are you. But at least address the point.

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Family Man ]

rebelnerd · 09-11-2002, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RJS:
If you dont like her faith, dont read her book or an article on her book.

If you don't like what is posted here, don't read it or reply. Pot, kettle, black.

Quote:

�You think you deserve a happy life and get angry when it doesn�t always happen like that,� she wrote in �Let�s Roll!,� her just-published memoir (first printing: 1 million copies). �In fact, you are a sinner and deserve only death. The fact that God has offered you hope of eternal life is amazing! You should be overwhelmed with joy and gratitude.�

Being an atheist, I don't validate any of the above. I sympathize with the woman for losing her husband and the father of their child, but I don't accept any of her voodoo philosophy.

Filo

09-12-2002, 04:56 AM

Lisa Beamer isn't the only 9/11 widow pushing Xtianity. Deena Burnett (her husband was killed on flt. 93) made the following remarks at a "Frontiers of Freedom" meeting the other day:

Quote:

And we need to give our children the ability to have prayer in school. Our country was founded on the principles of Christianity. The Bible inspired our doctrine. Over 80 percent of United States citizens refer to themselves as Christians. Instead, we take away the privileges of many to satisfy a few. Thus, lowering the bar of morality for all of us.

<a href="http://www.ff.org/press/091102-burnett.html" target="_blank">More</a>

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: atheist_in_foxhole ]

RJS · 09-12-2002, 05:22 AM

Quote:

I do not know that the original poster lacks compassion for Mrs. Beamer's situation or not. There is nothing in that post that justifies that inference

Quote:

com�pas�sion n.
Deep awareness of the suffering of another coupled with the wish to relieve it

Original Poster says

Quote:

How the fuck is her thinking ANY DIFFERENT from the hijackers???

Boy, call me silly for making that inference.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: RJS ]

RJS · 09-12-2002, 05:32 AM

So lets say you own a gun for hunting purposes only, with the possibility that you could use it for protection if you had to.

Then one day a criminal guns down and kills your kids at the local grocery store.

Then on the anniversary of your child's death I come along and TO YOUR FACE I say that because you own a gun your thinking is just as bad as the guy that blew your kids head off. And I use a few explicatives for effect.

I assume given your high intelligence and ability to think theoretically you could discern that I may in fact have compassion for you, and I am really just a gun control freak. Or would you hit me?

K · 09-12-2002, 06:03 AM

RJS:

I don't think that analogy comes close. I think a closer one might go like this.

Your child is shot and killed by a criminal. You write a book that claims that all children deserve to be killed. On the one year anniversary of the childs death, someone posts on an antiviolence message board that your thinking is as bad as the killer's.

RJS · 09-12-2002, 06:18 AM

Beamer is not claiming that we all should be killed. I think you analogy fails there.

I think my analogy is much closer - surprise

Gun = Religion
Question is how you use it.
Original poster is a gun control freak.
All gun owners are killers.

I guarantee you that Beamer has no desire or intention to take a human life. You are missing her point by taking things out of context.

Automaton · 09-12-2002, 06:45 AM

People... don't... die... needlessly...?!

That sick bitch needs to snap out of her cult delusions and try telling that to someone who had family hydrogen cyanided to death during the Holocaust. How's that for fucking sympathy?

Wyz_sub10 · 09-12-2002, 06:58 AM

RJS, Beamer is claiming we all deserve death. We all "know" that only Christians are saved and can be thankful for eternal life. Therefore, all non-Christians deserve death.

Quote:

I guarantee you that Beamer has no desire or intention to take a human life. You are missing her point by taking things out of context.

I'm sure you are correct here, but would assert that she is promoting a self-loathing that I *think* was at the heart of the original post.

Her grief notwithstanding, this attitude scares me - we are not worthy, we are all sinners, life is shit by nature.

09-11-2002, 08:27 PM	#12
Family Man Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Superior, CO USA Posts: 1,553	I do not know that the original poster lacks compassion for Mrs. Beamer's situation or not. There is nothing in that post that justifies that inference. Nor was there any justification for your inference that he doesn't appreciate the efforts Todd Beamer made on the plane. His post was about the rather disgusting view she promoted and nothing more. I can understand your offense, but your reaction was off the point. And he didn't say she was as bad as the hijackers. He said her thinking was as bad as the hijackers. There is a considerable difference between the two positions, and another unreasonable inference of yours. And I, and everyone else, has the right to read anything we want, including things we disagree with. We are also free to criticize that which we disagree with. As are you. But at least address the point. [ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Family Man ]</p>

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09-12-2002, 05:32 AM	#16
RJS Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 303	So lets say you own a gun for hunting purposes only, with the possibility that you could use it for protection if you had to. Then one day a criminal guns down and kills your kids at the local grocery store. Then on the anniversary of your child's death I come along and TO YOUR FACE I say that because you own a gun your thinking is just as bad as the guy that blew your kids head off. And I use a few explicatives for effect. I assume given your high intelligence and ability to think theoretically you could discern that I may in fact have compassion for you, and I am really just a gun control freak. Or would you hit me?

09-12-2002, 06:03 AM	#17
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	RJS: I don't think that analogy comes close. I think a closer one might go like this. Your child is shot and killed by a criminal. You write a book that claims that all children deserve to be killed. On the one year anniversary of the childs death, someone posts on an antiviolence message board that your thinking is as bad as the killer's.

09-12-2002, 06:18 AM	#18
RJS Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Tampa Posts: 303	Beamer is not claiming that we all should be killed. I think you analogy fails there. I think my analogy is much closer - surprise Gun = Religion Question is how you use it. Original poster is a gun control freak. All gun owners are killers. I guarantee you that Beamer has no desire or intention to take a human life. You are missing her point by taking things out of context.

09-12-2002, 06:45 AM	#19
Automaton Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 717	People... don't... die... needlessly...?! That sick bitch needs to snap out of her cult delusions and try telling that to someone who had family hydrogen cyanided to death during the Holocaust. How's that for fucking *sympathy*?

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