Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Mughal · 11-26-2002, 11:44 AM

OVERALL VIEW

HOW TO STUDY RELIGION AND SECULARISM

The reasons for writing this guide are obvious to make religious and secular study easier. The hope is that when people know the truth about different religions or various kinds of secularisms it will help them create or choose an ideology and its relevant systems the best they can. It will help remove distrust and mistrust from between people and help them unite for cooperating for progress and prosperity. I will not be detailing everything but only as much as is necessary in my own view so that one could find the relevant information and be able to study it oneself. For example, one must study various religions and various kinds of secularisms to have full knowledge about the both. However, I will advise one to study religious or secular ideologies and their relevant systems from their followers as well as their critics to get the fair idea as to what one should or should not believe or follow in action. If one wants to study islam for example then one must see what muslims believe islamic ideology and systems to be and what they do as muslims as well as what critics of islamic background think of islamic ideology and its systems and muslims as well as what are the views of hindus, parsees, jews, christians, agnostics, atheists etc etc about it.

For the rest please visit my home page, thank you.

Philosoft · 11-26-2002, 01:38 PM

I am at a loss to understand what you are talking about, save that you appear to be promoting your own website, which you cleverly neglect to link to.

Mods?

Jobar · 11-26-2002, 04:42 PM

Mmmm... aside from Capital Abuse, and being an obvious come-on for more Islamic preaching, and being hopelessly vague, the guy has a really stupid-sounding name, too. Ah, he did link to his homepage, though- the little home icon at the top of his post. That won't save this post from being slam dunked into RRP however.

ashibaka · 11-26-2002, 05:20 PM

Uhh... what's so great about your website that makes you type in ALL CAPS on the homepage?

Maybe it's the high-quality ranting...

David M. Payne · 11-26-2002, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jobar:
Mmmm... aside from Capital Abuse, and being an obvious come-on for more Islamic preaching, and being hopelessly vague, the guy has a really stupid-sounding name, too. Ah, he did link to his homepage, though- the little home icon at the top of his post. That won't save this post from being slam dunked into RRP however.

Actually Jobar, he is not any kind of an Islamic preacher that I have seen, he has been critical of Islam over on the Arab <a href="http://www.faithfreethinkers.org" target="_blank">www.faithfreethinkers.org</a> site that I post on, so he may prove to be an asset here, if you guys don't scare him off that is. I'll drop him a note and let him know where his thread went. Here is his web site E-Mail address below, for those of you who may be interested in talking to a live person from the Middle East (?) I think.

David

<a href="http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu" target="_blank">http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu</a>

[ November 26, 2002: Message edited by: David M. Payne ]

Jobar · 11-27-2002, 04:53 AM

Er, ah, um... if that's the case, I'll apologize most humbly; I didn't actually visit his site, and the post style looked exactly like the last half dozen Islamic rants I have moved out of EoG.

If he is going to post here though, I think he should know that his name sounds just like 'muggle'- and as anyone who has read Harry Potter knows, muggles are mundane.

If he responds, David, tell him that we welcome reasonable theists of all stripes, including Muslims.

11-27-2002, 07:53 AM

It looks as though he may support separation of mosque and state. If this is the case, please point him to <a href="http://www.secularislam.org" target="_blank">this site.</a>

CX · 11-27-2002, 09:50 AM

Q: What is definition of proof?

A: 2P

Where P = % alcohol content by volume

As such I'm guessing you're operating on about 100 proof or better at the moment.

ashibaka · 11-27-2002, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by CX:
Q: What is definition of proof?

A: 2P

Where P = % alcohol content by volume

Except in England, where it's about 1.751P. The logic behind this is too English for me to figure out.

Mughal · 11-28-2002, 07:39 PM

Dear All,

Thanks for the nice welcome.

As for those who want to know about me, I am an ex-muslim of Pakistan that was part of India before partition in 1947. I am living in UK with my children and grandchildren.

I settled in Uk in nineteen-sixties. As for my name. My surname is Mughal in Urdu (language of Pakistani and many India people). I come from the tribe of Chengez Khan (the great chief) of Mongolia, who became the famous conquerer of twelveth century. Mughals were nomads and bandits before they turned civilised. The great Khan was a Budhist. His Empire extended from the east to the west. You might have heard people call the top people in a field MOGOL this and MOGOL that eg Rupert Mudoch is called a media MOGOL, it is because of that Mughal and his dinasty. Mughals were the rulers in India till 1859 before British took over India. There are around one billion Mughals in the world today from the east to the west. They come in all shapes and sizes. As mughals conquered country after country they settled there and so we have blacks and whites, chines and indian, europeans and africans in our mixed race family due to interracial breeding. We have hindus, budhists, christians and muslims etc etc in our family. We are a multy cultural, multy religious, multy lingual, and multiracial people.

Oh, one more thing, by ex-muslim you may think I am now a christian or something. No, I am an atheist. Don't worry, I am not at all worried about you people, for you are doing great. I am worried about people, who are not doing so well. People who call themselves muslims. It is not that they are not doing well themselves but that they want to make sure no one else is doing well either. Their mission suicide and eilimation of nonmuslims.

Now if you want to know about their mindset and that if you want to help us do something about it then visit our sites and participate to learn the truth about islam and muslims and then help us infiltrate islamic sites to educate them out of this cult called Islam, the religion of peace. I think if you do watch news, hardly a day goes by that we do not here some atrocity committed by our muslim brethren.

Now some questions for you my brethren to answer.

1) Is it possible for muslims and nonmuslims to co-exist in harmony? If yes, how? If no, why not?

2) Does the quran allow muslims to coexist in preace and harmony with nonmuslims as equal human beings? If yes, how? If no, why not?

3) Since muslims and nonmuslims have opposing objectives for which they struggle with each other the possible outcomes are; a)both finish off each other, b)one side finishes off the other by elimination or defeat and c) both end up compromising. Now which of these have muslims chosen and which one would have been better for them?

Finally, have you read the quran? If not please do. To do this has become necessary for us to refute muslim claims and to sort out muslim mentality for the good of both of us.

Muslims are coming up with all sorts of tricks to get some following even in the USA and the West. Unfortunately they have succeeded as well. You see my dear brethren if you do not wake up, the suicide bombers will be raised from amongst yourselves ie your own children.

Don't get me wrong I am not preaching hate against muslims or religions but concern for all of us. We are all in it together. Other religions and their followers are not a threat to humanity but islam and muslims are. The case is so obvious I do not think I need to prove it to you.

Now why I put the link to my sites is because I do not like cutting and pasting. Moreover, it would give you the whole picture in one place. I participate in various muslim forums and have little time on my hands to participate in here as well but I will try my best to bring to your attention the problems islam and muslims are causing for all of us.

A word of advice. If any of you decides to participate in muslims forums, please be a bit cautious or you will be kicked out of the forums in no time for talking straight. Try and educate muslims by raising issues and then letting them know your views about the issues. Do not use confrontation method as you do in this forum. Do not use remarks that may be take as insult to the quran, islam, the prophet or muslims. Please avoid getting personal with other users of the forum.

I did not put up links in the posts because they are already their in form of icons. But if you find them difficult then they are as follows;

<a href="http://www.muslimsandislamic.faithweb.com" target="_blank">http://www.muslimsandislamic.faithweb.com</a>

<a href="http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu" target="_blank">http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu</a>

<a href="http://www.faithfreedom.org" target="_blank">http://www.faithfreedom.org</a>

Don't worry about any apologies, I am not injured. Good luck to all of you and a very happy future

Mughal.

11-26-2002, 11:44 AM	#1
Mughal Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Islamabad, Pakistan & Glasgow, UK Posts: 1,525	WHAT IS DEFINITION OF PROOF? OVERALL VIEW HOW TO STUDY RELIGION AND SECULARISM The reasons for writing this guide are obvious to make religious and secular study easier. The hope is that when people know the truth about different religions or various kinds of secularisms it will help them create or choose an ideology and its relevant systems the best they can. It will help remove distrust and mistrust from between people and help them unite for cooperating for progress and prosperity. I will not be detailing everything but only as much as is necessary in my own view so that one could find the relevant information and be able to study it oneself. For example, one must study various religions and various kinds of secularisms to have full knowledge about the both. However, I will advise one to study religious or secular ideologies and their relevant systems from their followers as well as their critics to get the fair idea as to what one should or should not believe or follow in action. If one wants to study islam for example then one must see what muslims believe islamic ideology and systems to be and what they do as muslims as well as what critics of islamic background think of islamic ideology and its systems and muslims as well as what are the views of hindus, parsees, jews, christians, agnostics, atheists etc etc about it. For the rest please visit my home page, thank you.

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11-26-2002, 01:38 PM	#2
Philosoft Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Southeast of disorder Posts: 6,829	I am at a loss to understand what you are talking about, save that you appear to be promoting your own website, which you cleverly neglect to link to. Mods?

11-26-2002, 04:42 PM	#3
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Mmmm... aside from Capital Abuse, and being an obvious come-on for more Islamic preaching, and being hopelessly vague, the guy has a really stupid-sounding name, too. Ah, he did link to his homepage, though- the little home icon at the top of his post. That won't save this post from being slam dunked into RRP however.

11-26-2002, 05:20 PM	#4
ashibaka Regular Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Cloudy Water Posts: 443	Uhh... what's so great about your website that makes you type in ALL CAPS on the homepage? Maybe it's the high-quality ranting...

11-27-2002, 04:53 AM	#6
Jobar Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: secularcafe.org Posts: 9,525	Er, ah, um... if that's the case, I'll apologize most humbly; I didn't actually visit his site, and the post style looked exactly like the last half dozen Islamic rants I have moved out of EoG. If he is going to post here though, I think he should know that his name sounds just like 'muggle'- and as anyone who has read Harry Potter knows, muggles are mundane. If he responds, David, tell him that we welcome reasonable theists of all stripes, including Muslims.

11-27-2002, 07:53 AM	#7
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	It looks as though he may support separation of mosque and state. If this is the case, please point him to <a href="http://www.secularislam.org" target="_blank">this site.</a>

11-27-2002, 09:50 AM	#8
CX Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Portlandish Posts: 2,829	Q: What is definition of proof? A: 2P Where P = % alcohol content by volume As such I'm guessing you're operating on about 100 proof or better at the moment.

11-28-2002, 07:39 PM	#10
Mughal Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Islamabad, Pakistan & Glasgow, UK Posts: 1,525	Dear All, Thanks for the nice welcome. As for those who want to know about me, I am an ex-muslim of Pakistan that was part of India before partition in 1947. I am living in UK with my children and grandchildren. I settled in Uk in nineteen-sixties. As for my name. My surname is Mughal in Urdu (language of Pakistani and many India people). I come from the tribe of Chengez Khan (the great chief) of Mongolia, who became the famous conquerer of twelveth century. Mughals were nomads and bandits before they turned civilised. The great Khan was a Budhist. His Empire extended from the east to the west. You might have heard people call the top people in a field MOGOL this and MOGOL that eg Rupert Mudoch is called a media MOGOL, it is because of that Mughal and his dinasty. Mughals were the rulers in India till 1859 before British took over India. There are around one billion Mughals in the world today from the east to the west. They come in all shapes and sizes. As mughals conquered country after country they settled there and so we have blacks and whites, chines and indian, europeans and africans in our mixed race family due to interracial breeding. We have hindus, budhists, christians and muslims etc etc in our family. We are a multy cultural, multy religious, multy lingual, and multiracial people. Oh, one more thing, by ex-muslim you may think I am now a christian or something. No, I am an atheist. Don't worry, I am not at all worried about you people, for you are doing great. I am worried about people, who are not doing so well. People who call themselves muslims. It is not that they are not doing well themselves but that they want to make sure no one else is doing well either. Their mission suicide and eilimation of nonmuslims. Now if you want to know about their mindset and that if you want to help us do something about it then visit our sites and participate to learn the truth about islam and muslims and then help us infiltrate islamic sites to educate them out of this cult called Islam, the religion of peace. I think if you do watch news, hardly a day goes by that we do not here some atrocity committed by our muslim brethren. Now some questions for you my brethren to answer. 1) Is it possible for muslims and nonmuslims to co-exist in harmony? If yes, how? If no, why not? 2) Does the quran allow muslims to coexist in preace and harmony with nonmuslims as equal human beings? If yes, how? If no, why not? 3) Since muslims and nonmuslims have opposing objectives for which they struggle with each other the possible outcomes are; a)both finish off each other, b)one side finishes off the other by elimination or defeat and c) both end up compromising. Now which of these have muslims chosen and which one would have been better for them? Finally, have you read the quran? If not please do. To do this has become necessary for us to refute muslim claims and to sort out muslim mentality for the good of both of us. Muslims are coming up with all sorts of tricks to get some following even in the USA and the West. Unfortunately they have succeeded as well. You see my dear brethren if you do not wake up, the suicide bombers will be raised from amongst yourselves ie your own children. Don't get me wrong I am not preaching hate against muslims or religions but concern for all of us. We are all in it together. Other religions and their followers are not a threat to humanity but islam and muslims are. The case is so obvious I do not think I need to prove it to you. Now why I put the link to my sites is because I do not like cutting and pasting. Moreover, it would give you the whole picture in one place. I participate in various muslim forums and have little time on my hands to participate in here as well but I will try my best to bring to your attention the problems islam and muslims are causing for all of us. A word of advice. If any of you decides to participate in muslims forums, please be a bit cautious or you will be kicked out of the forums in no time for talking straight. Try and educate muslims by raising issues and then letting them know your views about the issues. Do not use confrontation method as you do in this forum. Do not use remarks that may be take as insult to the quran, islam, the prophet or muslims. Please avoid getting personal with other users of the forum. I did not put up links in the posts because they are already their in form of icons. But if you find them difficult then they are as follows; <a href="http://www.muslimsandislamic.faithweb.com" target="_blank">http://www.muslimsandislamic.faithweb.com</a> <a href="http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu" target="_blank">http://www.religionandsecularism.gq.nu</a> <a href="http://www.faithfreedom.org" target="_blank">http://www.faithfreedom.org</a> Don't worry about any apologies, I am not injured. Good luck to all of you and a very happy future Mughal.

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